Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

This is the place to talk about all things Star Control.

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Frogboy
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by Frogboy »

In no particular order these are the things we're trying to hold true to:

1. Star Control 3 isn't canon.

2. Get Paul/Fred as involved as they are allowed to be.

3. Don't just look at Star Control 2 but also Starflight.

4. Collaborate with the fan community. There's 20 years of thought involved that can make a new game better.

5. Star Control is an ADVENTURE game. Not a 4X. The player is in charge of a ship/fleet not star systems, not planets, etc.

6. Don't let it take itself too seriously. The humor is a core part of the experience.

7. Multiplayer Melee/metagame

8. Don't rush it. Long, public beta of elements.

9. Plan on it being a series of games, not a one-off. Introduce new players to the game universe and go from there.

10. Make it into a mobile/social/f2p game

(#10 just checking to see if people are reading <g>).
cuorebrave
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by cuorebrave »

OHMIGOD! THE HORRORS! If you say the words Free-To-Play again in association with this game, my head will pop off and roll down the nearest hill!
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by jello »

Don't forget to add some micro-transactions. ;)
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by Vman »

Frogboy wrote:In no particular order these are the things we're trying to hold true to:

1. Star Control 3 isn't canon.

2. Get Paul/Fred as involved as they are allowed to be.

3. Don't just look at Star Control 2 but also Starflight.

4. Collaborate with the fan community. There's 20 years of thought involved that can make a new game better.

5. Star Control is an ADVENTURE game. Not a 4X. The player is in charge of a ship/fleet not star systems, not planets, etc.

6. Don't let it take itself too seriously. The humor is a core part of the experience.

7. Multiplayer Melee/metagame

8. Don't rush it. Long, public beta of elements.

9. Plan on it being a series of games, not a one-off. Introduce new players to the game universe and go from there.

10. Make it into a mobile/social/f2p game

(#10 just checking to see if people are reading <g>).
You will do a fine job then, I'm sure :)

I believe in you, and am not afraid that you'll muck it up. What better compliment can I possibly give than that? :D

The future of Star Control is in good hands 8-)
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Zeracles
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by Zeracles »

One goal I would add to the list is that it should be story driven. The story is interesting and it really matters. And freedom - the player needs to be nudged a little, but there should be many ways and strategies to win.
Frogboy wrote:5. Star Control is an ADVENTURE game. Not a 4X. The player is in charge of a ship/fleet not star systems, not planets, etc.
I hope there is room for flexibility here - Star Control 1 was a bit like this if a bit simple. I think elements of 4X in a Star Control game have potential as long as it's done in a uniquely Star Control fashion. One aspect that comes to mind is the complex behaviour of each ship and the web of ship-to-ship counters. Retaining all that in a 4X game could be very interesting. I guess what I'm suggesting is that while a 4X like others would be bad, a uniquely Star Control-esque adventure game leaning in that direction could still be good.
PatronGOP wrote:Take the advice you receive for what it is worth. If you are creating a game only to appeal to dedicated SC enthusiasts you'll sell about 14 copies.
I doubt Stardock needs a reminder here, but this is an excellent perspective to be borne in mind, a pragmatic balance does need to be achieved. We fans shouldn't forget that even if some idealism is given up for commercial success, a commercial success is what the series needs. A new Star Control, even if it isn't exactly what we want should be good for the community and introduce any curious new players to the originals we know and love. Remember that there is still UQM for hard core fans to make Star Control the way they want to.
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sakalava47
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by sakalava47 »

Zeracles wrote:One goal I would add to the list is that it should be story driven. The story is interesting and it really matters. And freedom - the player needs to be nudged a little, but there should be many ways and strategies to win.
Frogboy wrote:5. Star Control is an ADVENTURE game. Not a 4X. The player is in charge of a ship/fleet not star systems, not planets, etc.
I hope there is room for flexibility here - Star Control 1 was a bit like this if a bit simple. I think elements of 4X in a Star Control game have potential as long as it's done in a uniquely Star Control fashion. One aspect that comes to mind is the complex behaviour of each ship and the web of ship-to-ship counters. Retaining all that in a 4X game could be very interesting. I guess what I'm suggesting is that while a 4X like others would be bad, a uniquely Star Control-esque adventure game leaning in that direction could still be good.
PatronGOP wrote:Take the advice you receive for what it is worth. If you are creating a game only to appeal to dedicated SC enthusiasts you'll sell about 14 copies.
I doubt Stardock needs a reminder here, but this is an excellent perspective to be borne in mind, a pragmatic balance does need to be achieved. We fans shouldn't forget that even if some idealism is given up for commercial success, a commercial success is what the series needs. A new Star Control, even if it isn't exactly what we want should be good for the community and introduce any curious new players to the originals we know and love. Remember that there is still UQM for hard core fans to make Star Control the way they want to.
I also wouldn't mind if there were some 4x elements. Not sure if it would help or hurt, but Star Control 2 could have been just as great with different resource gathering mechanics. FF and PR would have made it interesting and/or funny.
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by cuorebrave »

What?!? 4x elements?

Does nobody remember the travesty that was STAR CONTROL III? That definitely started to include ridiculous 4x elements and turned out to be one of the most disappointing games in history, and single-handedly made the Star Control license go dormant for 20 years.

Remember creating colonies in each system? Remember building the bases up? Remember stopping by to get fuel, etc? Those are all 4x elements and they are DISTINCTLY NON-STAR-CONTROL.

Please keep the game the same. I want to scour the galaxy for resources and scoop them up on my lander. I want to uncover the universe's secrets. I want to go head-to-head, one-on-one against alien ships. I want to interact with them in a meaningful, conversational way. I want to CHANGE THE GALAXY.................. NOT colonize it.
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oldlaptop
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by oldlaptop »

cuorebrave wrote:What?!? 4x elements?

Does nobody remember the travesty that was STAR CONTROL III? That definitely started to include ridiculous 4x elements and turned out to be one of the most disappointing games in history, and single-handedly made the Star Control license go dormant for 20 years.

Remember creating colonies in each system? Remember building the bases up? Remember stopping by to get fuel, etc? Those are all 4x elements and they are DISTINCTLY NON-STAR-CONTROL.

Please keep the game the same. I want to scour the galaxy for resources and scoop them up on my lander. I want to uncover the universe's secrets. I want to go head-to-head, one-on-one against alien ships. I want to interact with them in a meaningful, conversational way. I want to CHANGE THE GALAXY.................. NOT colonize it.
SC3 tried to pick 4X elements up, but SC3 did it badly. The problem was not that they were there, but that they were *bad*. An SC3 where the colonization mechanic actually meant something may well have been interesting. I don't think putting the Star Control name on yet another 4X game would be a good idea, but crossing genres is what really is at the core of both real Star Control games, and strategy/4X is one genre it might be interesting to cross with.
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Zeracles
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by Zeracles »

Heh, I sense tension here. I appreciate the spirit of what cuorebrave is saying - Star Control is and should remain adventure-oriented, funny and plot-driven. But I think oldlaptop has a great point here.

If SCnot3 had failed after valiantly attempting to incorporate 4X elements well, it would indeed assert strongly that such elements don't belong in Star Control. However, SCnot3 implemented 4X elements really poorly, so in my opinion it actually demonstrates very little in this regard. It's not hard to imagine a Star Control that benefits from that done right.
cuorebrave wrote:Please keep the game the same.
Be careful, because I hope that a new Star Control really innovates. SC1 innovated, with an interesting blend of action and strategy driven by an assortment of interesting ships, each with their own distinct character. SC2 also innovated, drawing the player into a plot-driven adventure set within an elaborate universe. Both of these games either did new things, or old things better than previous games. I hope that tradition continues in any new games, or at least in the true SC3 if we get it. Innovation is part of why Star Control is remembered and has endured, so this is not a purely intellectual goal. Innovation is often how a product breaks the market, and like it or not, this will be marketed.

When I express hope for flexibility here, I'm definitely not suggesting the adventure mode should be supplanted by 4X. That would diverge too much from the character of SC2. What I am suggesting is that elements of 4X may enhance the experience and should be on the table for consideration. I also suggest that a Star Control-esque 4X might offer something new to the 4X genre. The complex behaviours and distinct characters of the ships, the dominant adventure and elaborate plot, accompanied by whimsical humour - is there already a 4X that incorporates these elements well? I'm thinking about how a new Star Control can innovate, as I believe it should, and as its predecessors have, addressing my point above.

Oh, and while I'm here, I thought oldlaptop had an interesting thought about improving on SC2's resource gathering by borrowing from Starflight, which I thought was interesting given that one of the goals in Frogboy's list above is to draw inspiration from Starflight.
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Dyandod
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Re: Let's help Stardock make the best Star Control possible!

Post by Dyandod »

Huh, I suddenly have the strong urge to apply for a high-ranking development-related job at Stardock.......... weird........

But wow, this is great! I'd rather wait until I have more time to write a more detailed comment about my thoughts right now, but I'm about to go away for a few days, so I think I'll try to at least get a few thoughts out before I'm gone.

PatronGOP wrote:-Don't try to answer all of the questions. A good story gives you only about 60-75% of the information. One of the reasons we have all longed for a true sequel is to answer some of those questions. Some is fine, but if you try to answer them all and leave a neat ending you will be stomping all over the imaginations of others. Anything not done by TFB is open to the criticism of being "unofficial". Tread lightly.
I remember watching an interview of Paul and Fred about a year ago, and they talked about how the developers of SC3 had tried to answer all of the questions left over from SCII. I don't know the exact words he used, but I remember Paul saying something like: "I think if I had known they were doing that, I would've been like 'Oh My God don't DO that!... Come up with NEW questions!!!'" I'm hoping Stardock can take that advice!

PatronGOP wrote:-Do not be a first person shooter.
Hmmm... hang on a sec, I want to mention something that I don't think I've seen mentioned yet. How much of the game will be in 2D, and how much in 3D? Maybe I'm just unimaginative, but I'm struggling to see how one could make a third person 2-dimensional playing field engaging enough for the current generation of gamers. One thing I've been thinking about.... I have to admit really DO like the first-person 3D system that Galaxy on Fire 2 has for navigating within a solar system.... I'd absolutely love to be able to play Star Control like that. However, that's just for traveling within a solar system... I'm definitely not fond of their system for traveling between solar systems- it's too much like "warp bubble transport" [shudders]. I definitely don't want to get rid of Hyperspace. Also, I don't know if I'd want the same system for melee.... Adding a third dimension to Star Control melee seems like a huge deviation from the original games.

Frogboy wrote:4. Collaborate with the fan community. There's 20 years of thought involved that can make a new game better.

9. Plan on it being a series of games, not a one-off. Introduce new players to the game universe and go from there.
Oh yes! I'm really happy you're doing this! There's so much creativity that's gone on in this fandom and I'm really hoping you use some of mine ours in the games... I mean, I've we've got some pretty brilliant, you know! :D

But in all seriousness, I really do hope you take advantage of us. I want to get the best Star Control game ever!!!


All right, there's a ton of other things I want to talk about, but that's OK for now. Be back in a few days.... :P
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