Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

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TSC
Silly Supox
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Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by TSC » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:32 am

This might be incredibly SPOILERIFFIC!

So... just a heads up.

Provided Stardock doesn't Stardock up the possibilities for an ACTUAL Star Control sequel. (Actually why did I censor my joke? Are there little kids that play 25 year old space games nowadays? Eh, if so they probably know all the words already.)

But anyway SPOILERS! as to what Ghosts of the Precursors may be about!

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Okay, if you read past here, you have been warned!

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Now, if you where already a little older then Star Control 2 came around, you might notice Star Control took quite a few cues from the StarFlight series. This might not be new to people who, like myself, still to this day hang around a forum like this, but it's worth noting for what's about to come!

Now not to go over every StarFlight similarity with the later Star Control 2, I will simply note that the StarFlight games have the ancient Leghk species, who ended up partially dominated by an extradimensional creature called the Uhl, who converted these Leghk into Uhlek, a powerful faceless enemy. You meet Uhl very briefly towards the end of StarFlight 2, where it is an energy being (resembling a Mycon Plasmoid) who talks in somewhat bizarre english.

Now this isn't necessarily my personal preference... But digging through the Star Control 2 script at sa-matra.net, and what the game has to say about the Precursors, I came to the conclusion that the Ghosts of the Precursors would be an expy of the Uhl's Leghk, except they'd be Orz's Precursors. (Orzcursors if you will.), and that these Orzcursors will be both the titular Ghosts of the Precursors (Since they're mindless Orz-controlled puppets, which are also Precursors.) And the main enemy of the game (providing an enemy vastly more powerful then either of those old Quans. (In fact if you thought fighting ONE Sa-Matra was bad... well... this would be why you'd need that Mark II)

Of course such a claim requires a little proof, so here's the evidence!

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Now not all races in SC2 mention the Precursors. Some of these like the Ilwrath and Kohr-Ah are hostiles, whom you won't expect to have a chat on the subject with you. And others are underdeveloped in general (Supox) or have other things to do (Yehat, Syreen, Shofixti) Sadly, the Orz and Arilou have nothing to say on these guys either.

Also not every species who DO mention the Precursors have to much to say other then to note some artifacts are of Precursor origin, or that the Rainbow Worlds are Precursor Waste Dumps (According to the Spathi and Thraddash)

Also worth noting is that the Dnyarri makes a rather odd claim of the Dnyarri having found the Sa-Matra, which would be impossible for it to say if it was found after the Dnyarri where given collective lobotomies... Maybe the Dnyarri for once wasn't lying (Since it presents info it shouldn't have otherwise) and the Kzer-Za just 'found' something the Dnyarri had that they where unaware the Dnyarri had?

But still that's not really the Good Stuff. So here comes.

There's a few species who DO have information and it's quite a doozy once you combine it with what we know of the Orz. These are really just the humans and the Slylandro.

Now the Slylandro's information is pretty well know. They describe the Precursors as the Shaggy Ones, but let's go to what the humans know first, because this is where it'll fall into place.

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At the start you, the Captain are Unzervalts unusual mutant who just has a natural affinity with Precursor tech. The Captain is young, but is the only one who can fly the ship, and thus must lead the mission. This is unusual, because as Hayes mentions, usually alien ships can only be flown by native captains. (THIS IS IMPORTANT!)

Now Hayes himself on the Precursors will note that they arrived 200.000 years ago and 3000 years later simply seem to have vanished. (That too is important, a sudden vanishing... where have we seen that in SC2 Androsynth maybe?)

Hayes also note Precursor artifacts have been found on Earth (And that when the Precursors where around humans where in the stone age) This means the Precursors probably visited Earth. (And by later evidence not JUST Earth.)

Hayes notes a few funny things the science team discovered about the artifacts you bring to the station. Such as the Utwig Bomb, (widely recognized as a Precursor Device) having similarities to Chenjesu tech. (More Precursor meddling?) Also, the Aqua Helix is NOT recognized as a Precursor Artifact, even if the Rosy Sphere and Clear Spindle are. (Did someone else create the Aqua Helix?)

The fixed Ultron is recognized as the Precursor Artifact called 'The Appendages of Dawn', noted to be able to 'focus the mental energies of the holder `for the purpose of discrete change'' It's also compatible with the Utwig only (Suggesting the Precursors mucked around with the Utwig in the past.) Now the idea of 'discretely changing' a mind might suggest... very interestingly, that they where changing the Utwig's *smell*. After all, the Orz can only snatch you if you know enough about *them* (And this is a hint that the Precursors ran into Orz perhaps, and that Orz snagged SOME but not all of them. (More evidence for that will emerge too! (Note that Fred and Paul revealed there where Androsynth who where not snagged up and that this was a major intended plotpoint for the sequel.)

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Next up the Landing Crew notes that the Androsynth found Precursor Devices at Alpha Lalande that could produce a dimensional weakpoint... This is a BIG smoking gun. After all when the Androsynth used this device, they summoned the Orz... so the Precursors probably ran into the same problem? (Or summoned something from *Below* at least!)

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The Slylandro also note the Precursors when they last saw them where frantically worried about something that they did not tell the Slylandro about... Now why didn't they tell the Slylandro about their problem? Because knowing of the Orz would make the Slylandro vulnerable to the Orz! So the Precursors who weren't snatched wisely decided not to tell the Slylandro the details, which would have alerted the Orz to them.

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Not convinced?

Well in StarFlight2 you run into Uhl. Uhl sees alien races as parasitic viruses and likes to dominate a powerful species to serve as an antibody. The Uhl entity dominated some, but not all of the ancient Leghk and made them into Uhlek. What if Orz dominated many of the ancient Precursors and turned them into Orzcursors, and that was what the Free Precursors where fighting? And what they where so worried about?

Now Uhl dominated the Leghk (And a group of humans named the Umanu) by manifesting a brain-world into their reality. What if Orz could do this trick as well?

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Still seems a little shaky right? Did Orz win and go away then? Or did the Precursors win but somehow went away too? Well there's an answer to that too!

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In order to beat StarFlight 2, you must travel back in time to meet up with Leghk survivors. Now in SC2 we also know some species can time travel. The Arilou mention they explore different *times* and the Orz talk about *pretty space* where the Taalo make *time jokes*. The Precursors are also very strongly suggested to be well ahead of the Taalo in technology (So if the Taalo can time travel, the Precursors should be able too as well... and notably... the ORZ apperently can!)

So what if the Orz/Orzcursor v. Free Precursor war went Temporal? And Orz, perhaps like a lovecraftian creature not perceiving time in a linear fashion, simply used the Androsynth in the future (when finding another dimensional weakpoint), to enter the future in order to prevent a past where hypothetically it might be destroyed? If to the Orz the past and present aren't seperate it could from Orz perspective just be entering different places in a new dimension at the same *Orztime*

Likewise the Precursors, fearing they might fail against Orz might have manipulated some younger races to be able to take up their fight. And they made it so that if a member of any of their manipulated races was born amidst Precursor tech, they'd have children with a chance of having a natural talent at using it. (Making them Temporal Anti-Orz Forces.)

Orz, perhaps smarter then Uhl (Who only reveals himself when you're about to kick his ass.), recognizing the Captain as a Precursor Timesoldier meant to the destroy it, then tries (in it's awkward interdimensional way) to befriend it, preventing the Captain from destroying their past self and perhaps allowing them to smell the Captain and nullify him as a threat.

It could still be that Orz as an entity is not actually actively malevolent so much as simply extremely dangerous. But Orz does seem to value it's own interests and desires over those of others. (As most individuals kind of tend to do.) And when an individual is a dangerous lovecraft creature, even a non malicious one could in total non-malice level the universe. Sure, maybe Orz as it suggests, really does want a friend to explore many dimensions with... Just if this dimension gets destroyed in the process, eh!

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Now if this theory is true, this means that the Ghosts of the Precursors will be Orz-enslaved Precursors attacking the New Alliance, and they will be a faceless enemy who won't communicate with anyone, they just try to destroy everyone. (To purge potential Orz enemies.) The Orz will offer to help you against an attack they're secretly causing, but in doing so will ultimately provide the seed of it's own undoing, and the rainbow worlds point to an Orz brainworld... that exists in the past, and requires your Mark II to go to the past at the end of the game to destroy the Orz brainworld in the past. (Which'd create an altered timeline.)

Kind of feeling that though there might be a few gaps, if Ghosts of the Precursors comes about, some of this will pan out. And I do hope Ghosts of the Precursors comes about! (I don't care about Stardock's garbage.)


** EDIT BY MOD : that "self-censoring" wasn't funny the previous time around and profanity implication, while not against the letter of the rules, sure is against the spirit.

paulreiche
I'M ALIVE!
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by paulreiche » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:20 pm

Image

Greg and I were in an undisclosed vacation location when your post came out, so we couldn't resist this obviously, OBVIOUSLY tongue-in-cheek suggestion to STOP SPILLING THE SECRET BEANS! You must be a thoughtful and intelligent person indeed to be such a dedicated fan of both StarFlight and The Ur-Quan Masters. Thanks for the speculation, and who knows what the future holds?! ...besides Hari Seldon and Charlie Booker, of course.

Happy New Year!

- Paul, Fred, Greg, and the invisible time-travelers who are always watching us

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Alvarin
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by Alvarin » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:06 pm

Yes, this is mod engaging in off-topic, but... THERE ARE SC2 BOXART SHIRTS?!
To be angry is to punish yourself for the errors of others.

krulle
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by krulle » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:49 pm

Heh, I didn't notice that when I checked....
Well spotted, Alvarin.


Also, hello paulreiche and Greg!
Nice to see you're *watching* us.

Oh, and I fear Alvarin blew your "shht!" regarding your shirt. The copyright for the box artwork was with Accolade, if I remember correctly, soI presume it is not for sale anywhere. Possibly anymore, it may have been a promotional article when SC2 was first published. (or a testprint for such promotional articles.)


Regarding the theory (finally read it, with paulreiche giving a strong incentive to go through it):
I never found the Orz referring to the Taalo as active time travelers (manipulating time themselves), but always interpreted the *time travelling* of the Taalo as using an inherent feature of *below* to play tricks on the *perceived time*.
Otherwise I cannot say much about the theory, never got around to playing StarFlight (which was before my PC gaming time).

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Alvarin
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by Alvarin » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm

There is a remastered version of Starflight, "Starflight - The Lost Colony" from, I think, 2010.
To be angry is to punish yourself for the errors of others.

krulle
Reborn Shofixti
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by krulle » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:19 am

Yeah, I know, but currently I don't have time to play.
Thee are also two fan versions of a Startropy 3 in development. Trademark owner even allowed the use of the name.
They are all on my list...

I want to play Starcom: Nexus for more than five minutes....
So far I liked the play, but did not ger beyond the second star system....
And that was nearly a month ago.... :(
The first game I touched since a few years, besides casual game time wasters...

Yeah, kids are wonderful time sinks..... :)

EnderSE15
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by EnderSE15 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:35 pm

paulreiche wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:20 pm
Greg and I were in an undisclosed vacation location
Who's Greg?

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Now and Forever
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by Now and Forever » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:07 am

This is a rather long and detailed theory! I am unsure about the tie in with the other fantasy universe. Doesn't seem like it would be an authority I'd look towards for potential new lore. I'm literally just hitting the Orz scenes again on my bajillionth playthrough decades later. I never felt they were malevolent just fun loving, detached from how our reality works, and careless. Like Orz is really a big dumb transdimensional goof that in it's understanding is just playing a game with it's *fingers*. Then the Arilou'laleelay's disdain for Orz is one part rivalry, one part fear, two parts territoriality, cold recognition of a competitor, and a dash of misunderstanding.

I squeezed way too much juice out of this. It's hard for me to not just love the Orz and want them to be good guys. Or at least morally grey goofballs. Fishballs. With space marine armor. So I really like your "just dangerous" approach as they clearly are that if you are not *happy campers*.

I'd be okay with Orz being the baddies too. I'd just be a bad guy then. Black hats are cooler anyways.
EnderSE15 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:35 pm
paulreiche wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:20 pm
Greg and I were in an undisclosed vacation location
Who's Greg?
Who isn't Greg? Curiouser and curiouser ...
Attention Interloper

krulle
Reborn Shofixti
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Re: Ghosts of the Precursors Theory

Post by krulle » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:19 am

EnderSE15 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:35 pm
paulreiche wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:20 pm
Greg and I were in an undisclosed vacation location
Who's Greg?
Greg Johnson (Ultronomicon article).
Developer of Starflight (wikipedia) (where Paul Reiche was a supporter), and a writer for some SC2 dialogue and designer of some SC2 ships (thus supporting FF and PR with developing SC2).

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