Political Opinion Megathread Dump

[Bleeding Star]

Yeah, they're basically staging protests on all the big days. I've got to hand it to them, they're a courageous bunch. There's a lot of people dying and/or disappearing over there right now. I wonder if we're heading towards a new revolution and a freer Iran or a tough crackdown and an even stricter one.

My entire knowledge of Iranian politics comes from watching "Persepolis". I was surprised to see how (relatively) liberal things were before the Islamic revolution - seems like this whole hardcore Muslim thing isn't actually central to Iranian identity. Good luck to the revolutionaries, but I think that it's going to get worse before (and if) it gets better.

[Lukipela]

My entire knowledge of Iranian politics comes from watching "Persepolis". I was surprised to see how (relatively) liberal things were before the Islamic revolution - seems like this whole hardcore Muslim thing isn't actually central to Iranian identity. Good luck to the revolutionaries, but I think that it's going to get worse before (and if) it gets better.

Iran used to be pretty liberal, and the liberals worked together with the theocrats to overthrow the Shah. then the Theocrats butchered them. Lovely folks that. Iraq used to be pretty swell as well before Hussein wormed his way to power. It'd be a pretty amazing world if those two things hadn't happened. Can you imagine a stable peaceful Middle East? Well, sort of anyhow. Moreso than now at any rate.

[Draxas]

It'd be a pretty amazing world if those two things hadn't happened. Can you imagine a stable peaceful Middle East? Well, sort of anyhow. Moreso than now at any rate.

No such thing. It's a region steeped in war and bloodshed since the dawn of human history. Even if Iran and Iraq were fairly stable, moderate countries, they would still likely be a lot like Turkey: repressive toward their people when compared with the average western nation, and incredibly xenophobic all around. Besides, we would still have the same maniacs in charge in all the other unstable countries; Syria, Lebanon, etc.

[Lukipela]

No such thing. It's a region steeped in war and bloodshed since the dawn of human history. Even if Iran and Iraq were fairly stable, moderate countries, they would still likely be a lot like Turkey: repressive toward their people when compared with the average western nation, and incredibly xenophobic all around. Besides, we would still have the same maniacs in charge in all the other unstable countries; Syria, Lebanon, etc.

Well, alternate history is always quite tricky, but I dunno. A more liberal and moderate Iran would mean that Syria had no immediate backup which might have left Lebanon a lot more intact. A balanced Iraq might have meant that the Saudis didn't get away with all they did, and both of them not fighting eachother to death might have meant that they'd project force into Afghanistan instead to keep their own borders calm. Besides, it might mean that they'd have been more susceptible to pressure. Turkey has changed a lot in the last 10 15 years. Who's to say others wouldn't have?

[Eth]

  Plus, if Iraq hadn't been run by that creep Saddam Hussein, they probably wouldn't have gone to war with Iran and Kuwait, the US would't have based troops in Saudi Arabia, so the various Saudis wouldn't have become radicalize by Western troops on the holiest of soils, 9-11 attacks wouldn't have occurred, so...  etc. etc.

[Draxas]

Plus, if Iraq hadn't been run by that creep Saddam Hussein, they probably wouldn't have gone to war with Iran and Kuwait, the US would't have based troops in Saudi Arabia, so the various Saudis wouldn't have become radicalize by Western troops on the holiest of soils, 9-11 attacks wouldn't have occurred, so...  etc. etc.

You're giving him way too much credit. The Saudis were very radical well before Saddam took power, they're just buddy-buddy with people in high places in the US. Granted, we may not have had the first Gulf War, and the second may have been confined only to Afghanistan, but it wouldn't have stopped the emergence of terrorism.

[Eth]

  My point wasn't that Saddam directly caused the rise of Saudi radicalism, but that US troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia (to protect Arabia in case Saddam tried to invade it) caused a tremendous amount of resentment among the Saudis, in particular one Osama bin Laden. 

[Draxas]

US support of Israel was a stronger motivaor, US troops in Saudi Arabia was just a convenient excuse to shift hatred from Jews to Americans, really. It's too difficult to pull off a major strike in Israel, because they don't screw around; if you're successful, they'll retaliate by killing you, your family, and everyone you've ever associated with, probably without anyone getting wise to it.

[Eth]

  Well, I disagree.  For one thing, it's not like people don't regularly perform terrorist attack against Israel (though not of the scale of the 9-11 attacks).  For another thing, the US has supported Israel for decades, yet suddenly Osama gets mad right when we send infidel troops into Islam's holiest lands?  This is not a coincidence.