Author Topic: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished  (Read 90084 times)

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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2008, 11:57:46 pm »
Anyway, those look good ahead of some touches to come, tell me if there's anything else I can help with . . .

Weeellll...  If you're feeling up to it:  would it be possible to output the backgrounds as text?  ie:  Any column based format (like a CSV) with each row containing the Star X, Y, Z, Colour and intensity and/or any other information that's important.

Then if you could also write out as a PNG a white star of each intensity on a regular grid (you probably see where this is going now).  It'll probably just be a row of about 20 stars or so.  That really would be most appreciated because I'll be able to render the stars as particles which would make for a pretty parallax effect.  If you're not generating a Z co-ord during the distribution don't worry about it I'll slap in something random.

One of the strongest aspects of Dune is its fantastic music
Incidentally, I'm about to start reading the novel Dune, I'm pretty excited about it.

Yup, the music really was some of the best MIDI music I've ever heard although I still prefer the MOD music from Star Control II.  MIDI synths on PC's really were (and still are) their own strange world.

I really enjoyed the book and as Sci-fi it doesn't really date (you'll find out why when you read it - either an awesome idea on Herbert's part or sheer coincidence).  The other book in the series which left an impression on me was God Emperor of Dune - the others I'm afraid have been forgotten to the mists of time.

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2008, 05:35:14 am »
Doing the second thing first . . .
Then if you could also write out as a PNG a white star of each intensity on a regular grid (you probably see where this is going now).  It'll probably just be a row of about 20 stars or so.  That really would be most appreciated because I'll be able to render the stars as particles which would make for a pretty parallax effect.




















These are all separate images, the intensities vary from 0.1 to 2 in steps of 0.1, where 1 is what I thought was the nicest. 100x100, but I can always do higher resolution, and more intensities if it helps.

Weeellll...  If you're feeling up to it:  would it be possible to output the backgrounds as text?  ie:  Any column based format (like a CSV) with each row containing the Star X, Y, Z, Colour and intensity and/or any other information that's important.
Sure, but that information (apart from x, y in some cases) hasn't been saved for the backgrounds so far. I can save all that information for new maps though. Which one are you after? And are you still interested in an actual image (it's faster to just get the data, these high resolution images take time to make ;D)?

If you're not generating a Z co-ord during the distribution don't worry about it I'll slap in something random.
If you're after the clustered one, slapping in a random z will dilute the clusters I think, but I can make clusters in 3D too (for some reason I derive extreme amusement from rotating a box full of clusters interactively . . . I derive extreme amusement from all kinds of strange things though) :)

Before I forget, these stars have as many points as we like

Just mentioning it . . .

Yup, the music really was some of the best MIDI music I've ever heard although I still prefer the MOD music from Star Control II.  MIDI synths on PC's really were (and still are) their own strange world.
Ah, I remember wondering which I liked more, back in the day . . . I liked the Dune music perhaps a touch more than SC2's mods . . . the UQM remixes tip musical matters back in SC's favour for me though. One of the sietch themes, Morning Sunrise, is one my favourites from any genre, and so is ``Wake Up" from Spice Opera, which is a remix of the Map/Sekvence theme. Spice Opera's great too (there's some kind of conflict between the composer, Stephane Picq, and the fellows who have the rights, or something).
I really enjoyed the book and as Sci-fi it doesn't really date (you'll find out why when you read it - either an awesome idea on Herbert's part or sheer coincidence).
Great, the sci-fi I like most tends not to date because I'm not really interested in gizmos, more the philosophical and sociological side of things.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 05:52:33 am by Zeracles »
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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2008, 11:29:49 am »
These are all separate images, the intensities vary from 0.1 to 2 in steps of 0.1, where 1 is...
Perfect thanks, I'll try and have some sort of viewer posted by this weekend so you can see what I'm doing (and the file format).

Sure, but that information (apart from x, y in some cases) hasn't been saved for the backgrounds so far. I can save all that information for new maps though. Which one are you after? And are you still interested in an actual image (it's faster to just get the data, these high resolution images take time to make)?
I just realised I don't need the images at all (not even for the title) as I can render all the stars as particles (using additive blending) which will be both smaller and faster.  So I guess just the data ;D.
[EDIT]New maps will be fine - the actually star positions aren't that important.  It's just the overall appearance which is why I want to get a viewer out.

If you're after the clustered one, slapping in a random z will dilute the clusters I think
Yup, it'll look much better with proper z information - I can even put it in a box for you ;) (if I bastardise the star-map slightly... funny that the star-map actually had planets in it).

As an aside: having taken a listen to the Spice Opera tracks I prefer them to the Precursors remixes - which are very good but seem to lack the manic character of the original SC2 mods.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 11:34:17 am by Dragon »

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2008, 09:05:56 am »
Map as text.

Columns are separated by whitespace and from left to right are x, y, z, redness, greenness, blueness, intensity, radius. Tell me if there are any problems with the format. (x, y, z) for these 1105 points are all within a 1x1x1 cube. The colour components are just random numbers between 0 and 1 (when there were only eight colours they were binary), (1,1,1) = white. Intensity values are taken randomly from the 20 images I posted (but these were originally any number between 0 and 2).

The radius values are skewed to give more small numbers than large - for this I used ((exp(rand))*0.01-0.01)/2 (where rand is a random number between 0 and 1), which puts all of the radii between 0 and 0.9, more at the lower end. Actually, before I was doing (1-exp(-rand))*0.01 but I've only just realised that doesn't do what I thought it did ;D (even though it looked that way at the time). Anyway the distribution of radius values can be fiddled with by just multiplying by some constant or using a different base or changing one of the other constants. To relate these radius values to the individual star images I posted, those were 100x100 and the radii were all 12.5.

I'm guessing most tweaks you can now do without me (I could still do them though), but tell me about any changes to the clustered points, they're really quick to make. I'd send the code but it's written in matlab.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 09:14:48 am by Zeracles »
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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2008, 09:37:15 am »
Map as text.
Thanks for that - it'll work perfectly.  Although as a funny co-incidence I only added the ability to parse floats in scientific notation about a week ago :o

I'm trying quite hard to post a viewer but the project is in a bad state compilation wise.  The viewer part works fine but depends on a scripting library which I'm rewriting from the ground up and is unlikely to compile within the next 3 or 4 days.  Aaagh!
Quote
I derive extreme amusement from all kinds of strange things though
Me too apparently ;D,  I'm not sure how I could possibly have thought that a rewrite now was a good idea.

I'm guessing most tweaks you can now do without me (I could still do them though), but tell me about any changes to the clustered points, they're really quick to make. I'd send the code but it's written in matlab.
'will do; I haven't seen what the density of stars is like in the battle map so I've no idea what tweaks are necessary yet (anther reason why I really want to get the engine going again).

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2008, 12:06:26 pm »
Although as a funny co-incidence I only added the ability to parse floats in scientific notation about a week ago :o
I would have been looking into it now at worst, but an auspicious portent anyway I hope!

Less than 4 hours to go I see :-X, mood music <- music from the first level of Doom II

Whatever happens with the compo, we still love you :-*
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 12:12:58 pm by Zeracles »
Fear not the Arch Viles and Spectres of the Deepest Reaches, for the X is strong in this place.

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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2008, 02:37:11 pm »
Whatever happens with the compo, we still love you :-*
I don't know if you've spotted my last (slightly deranged post) but I haven't managed to finish in time.  I know I'm going to look at it again tomorrow morning and think I've made a right prat of myself but at the moment I still think it's inordinately funny :P.  Usually a sure sign that I should go to bed... but... I'm still on a roll.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 03:31:45 am by Dragon »

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2008, 03:11:24 pm »
Oops, I thought you might still be going for that ``Hi-I'm-here" option ;D

Well, keep rolling (though I'd probably just chill for the next few days if I were you)!
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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2008, 10:35:23 am »
I was going to enter something, even if it was just a two ship melee... but... I later realised that my last backed up build was really old and not representative of where the game is currently (ie: it was crap).  I should've backed *before* the grand rewrite but forgot.  Oh well, such is life.

On the brighter side I'm still beavering away like ... ... something that beavers away.  Looking at what's failing I think (though this might be premature) that things are almost back to where they were before I began.  I also think (though again this may be premature) that I've fixed the tiny little performance issue.  It was taking more then 5 hours to parse the full source.  I don't know how much more because I never actually let it finish :o

Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2009, 12:07:05 pm »
Right so I finally got around to doing some coding again.  I've put Zeracles stars in (sorry it took so long :-[) and the updated executables can be found at Retro Remakes in the usual place (last message in the thread).

Ah well, I was full of good intentions to get this finished over the Christmas holidays but just somehow didn't manage to open an IDE  :P

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2009, 02:50:17 am »
Oooh, starry night indeed!

Let me know if just a little help could bring out any other effects that take your fancy . . . maybe we can make 'em twinkle for the sky of Dune, or something more dramatic ;)
Ah well, I was full of good intentions to get this finished over the Christmas holidays but just somehow didn't manage to open an IDE  :P
We're used to SC projects dying within weeks of conception :)

That's taken my mind off the cricket for just a little bit ;D
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 02:52:07 am by Zeracles »
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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2009, 01:06:26 pm »
That's taken my mind off the cricket for just a little bit

He hehe hahaha Ahaa Mwahahahaha!
:P
Ahem... uh... sorry 'bout that. *wanders back into the world of Star Control*

We're used to SC projects dying within weeks of conception

Well at least if this one fails I'm going to really upset that curve then ;),  just realised that bits of the engine have been around since 2003(!).  SC was (and still is) supposed to be a thin layer ontop of it (the engine).  Of course if I could actually settle on a scripting language it would be layering a lot faster.  It's been Smalltalk all through SC's dev but I've variously considered GNU Smalltalk, SYX Smalltalk and now (as of compo end) seem to be implementing my own.  It's a lot easier than it sounds - it really is a simple (but well thought out) language.

Let me know if just a little help could bring out any other effects that take your fancy . . . maybe we can make 'em twinkle for the sky of Dune, or something more dramatic

If your nebula generation is any good that would be a nice touch but I think trying to generate anything that a structure that complex could be a very, very big project all on it's own.  If you can think of a cheatsie way of doing it that would be great but otherwise don't stress.

As an aside I was given 'Prelude to Dune' for christmas.  If you enjoyed Dune you might want to think long and hard before you read it.  Both authors have been around for a while before they wrote it but it still seems to be ... childish ... in places. :(

Further aside:  if you're feeling absolutely manic you could try writing a sand dune generator - I tried one as part of my honours thesis until I realised how ridiculously difficult it was(!)

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2009, 11:44:40 pm »
He hehe hahaha Ahaa Mwahahahaha!
:P
But we're still number one! :P

I know that's hollow, but the return series will be telling, this isn't the first time we've been labelled ``over the hill", it happened after we lost the Ashes 2-1 (same scoreline!) in England in 2005. We won the return series 5-0. Ponting can be a vengeful character.
If your nebula generation is any good that would be a nice touch but I think trying to generate anything that a structure that complex could be a very, very big project all on it's own.  If you can think of a cheatsie way of doing it that would be great but otherwise don't stress.
I have a way (though I wouldn't call it cheatsie!) which should do the job, I'll see about it some time soon.
As an aside I was given 'Prelude to Dune' for christmas.  If you enjoyed Dune you might want to think long and hard before you read it.  Both authors have been around for a while before they wrote it but it still seems to be ... childish ... in places. :(
Heh, I've only read the first fifty pages of Dune so far, I'm really not the reader I used to be :( I think you've just killed Prelude for me, I only read those sorts of things if I hear really good things about them.

EDIT: Prelude to Foundation though, that was worth reading.

Further aside:  if you're feeling absolutely manic you could try writing a sand dune generator - I tried one as part of my honours thesis until I realised how ridiculously difficult it was(!)
Interesting.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 03:39:54 am by Zeracles »
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Offline Dragon

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2009, 12:12:17 pm »
But we're still number one! :P
Yeah, yeah.  Actually that was one of the few series that's entertained me in a long while.  Sadly somewhere along the line I lost interest in cricket. :(

I have a way (though I wouldn't call it cheatsie!) which should do the job, I'll see about it some time soon.
Thanks, there's no rush as I'm taking a slightly more relaxed view towards dev at the moment - mostly because I'm off on my smalltalk tangent but also because it's just to sodding hot to do anything right now.

Prelude to Foundation though, that was worth reading.
Yup, Asimov produced some awesome sci-fi.  It really helps that he wrote the Prelude to Foundation himself; as opposed to having another author write it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 11:34:47 am by Dragon »

Offline Zeracles

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Re: A star control 1 remake that may actually get finished
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2009, 02:16:00 am »
To generate nebulae, I take a set of points and smooth them. Single-scale smoothing (like the gaussians I was doing earlier in this thread) won't do the job though, that way one ends up with circles around all the points which isn't very interesting. So I turned to a multi-scale smoothing algorithm . . . one which I invented 8) (we describe it in subsection 5.2 and figure 10 shows an application - looking for galaxy clusters).

Now, if only citations by computer games counted ;)



The hope is that this delivers blobby nebulae with wisps. When I have time I'll make more of these and with much higher resolution, they will just be arrays of numbers between zero and one, and if you think they could be useful, you can decide what colours to give them and how bright they should be (I'll probably have a go at that too). Actually, different colours for different values might be the way to go . . .

These can also be done in 3D.

Funny how these nerdy tools are finding such uses, but I guess they are quite general.

I'm confused by something in Dune . . . is there a reason why in the game, the Atreides occupy Carthag and not Arrakeen?

EDIT
it's just to sodding hot to do anything right now.
I should have realised this, but here I am in my office, I'd like to go home but am effectively stranded seeing as how it's forty degrees outside :(
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 07:20:48 pm by Zeracles »
Fear not the Arch Viles and Spectres of the Deepest Reaches, for the X is strong in this place.

In my next life I would like to be a pootworm. ANNIGILATE ME!