Author Topic: Political Opinion Megathread Dump  (Read 45940 times)

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Offline Dragon

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2009, 09:27:14 am »
Wasn't the ousted president Mbeki one of those HIV deniers as well? I've only heard of him in connection with Zimbabwe, where he seems to have been doing some sort of mediating.
Yeah, he was although he never advocated taking a shower to cure it.  Also he was - in theory - mediating between the Zimbabwean parties but... a mediated solution seemed unlikely.  Too many of the ZANU PF generals would lose everything (up to and including their lives quite likely) if any real democratic power sharing solution was arrived at.  Complicating the issue further is that Thabo Mbeki's father was big chums with Bob so he's probably not seen as more than 'that kid' which doesn't gain a lot of respect.  And he hasn't got a very forceful personality - although he was a very good administrator - so Bob probably just ignored him.

Bob - incidentally - seems to be completely insane and can't give a coherent and non-contradictory speech so mediation was pretty much going to fall flat from the outset.  Add to that that Bob's second wife (dis)Grace is probably one of the most evil, greedy and power hungry people on the planet and the shit's hit the fan.  Unfortunately his first wife - Sally Hayfron - died in 1992 which was before the trouble started.  She seemed to have the people's best interests at heart and could stabalise Bob.

Also, there's something wrong with that poll. Or maybe your parties really don't differ at all?
Heh, must be some sort of statement :P
The internet + South African web designers is often a terrible, terrible combination.

Apparently I'm an ID supporter (is that good? Or am I some kind of crazy racist?), but I must say that that is a really badly designed questionaire.
The Independent Democrats are generally fairly sensible.

You don't need to pick an option to proceed (I abstained quite a lot) but there are quite a lot of WTF options in there.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 10:34:06 am by Dragon »

Offline Dragon

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2009, 10:23:16 am »
Seeing as I'm having a bit of a political rant at the moment I thought I'd bore you with some more in a double post.  Oh dear.

I was also interested to know if the vote 2009 website is politically neutral. As a non-south african I don't have the context to make a lot of these judgements. Were the scorpions really the good guys (as Q2 strongly implies)?
It seemed pretty neutral to me although I'm sure someone could be found who'd declare it biased in favour of any one of the parties.

The scorpions were very effective at crime fighting.  Actually they were a bit to effective and uncovered a lot of corruption in the ANC who then disbanded them.  *Every* other party wants them back.

ps:  Who thought it was a good idea to make a psychologist president?  (that would be Hendrik Verwoerd the man who masterminded apartheid).  Although that's not to say that others didn't take his ideas and run with them.  Which is how the country ended up where it is today.

Offline Lukipela

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2009, 06:59:54 am »
Interesting comments indeed. I did the poll (worked in Firefox but not in IE)

Works in neither for me. I suspect this is yet another blatant case of South Africans discriminating Finns. Also I pegged you more as an evilutionist than an intelligent design advocate.

Quote
For Q12:
Despite all the campaigns, HIV is still spreading like wildfire. What can prevent further HIV infections?
   It can only be prevented through sexual abstinence and fidelity
   Ask the church to help
   Implement a "comprehensive HIV and AIDS Strategy"
   Implement an "aggressive prevention campaign"
   Give every government department an AIDS Directorate
   Implement a "Comprehensive National Plan of Action"

Ahahahahaha. That's brilliant. My vote would go to implementing a national aggressively comprehensive plan of prevention directorate in every government strategy. Not to disparage your AIDS problem, it's insane that so many people are still getting infected in this day and age.

Also Dragon, I love how you call Mugabe "Bob" Makes him sound like an annoying, yet harmless neighbour. Which I suppose he kind of is to you. To the rest of us he is just a horrible terrible dictator who seems hell bent on wiping out what was once a rich country. More directly, he annoys me by giving Finnish white supremacists ample ammunition for their beloved "Well the darkies can't be trusted to handle anything" schtick. Have you ever visited Zimbabwe yourself? Wasn't it a popular vacation spot back in the day? Or am I just confused?

I suppose the best outcome here would be for COPE to whither away some of the ANC support? If nothing else, just to balance out your political scene.
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Offline Eth

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2009, 09:28:31 am »
Not to disparage your AIDS problem,
Why the hell not?  It's horrendous!

Offline Lukipela

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2009, 01:19:14 pm »
I was going for this definition:

- disparagement - The act of disparaging, of belittling
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2009, 12:29:58 am »
I assume that Eth meant that it's a huge problem rather than mocking it.  Please tell me I'm right.

Q12 was one of the WTF ones.  Although I sort of understand that there is *no* solution to the AIDS problem but it is politically contentious so the parties have to say something.  To expound: there is no social fix.  Too many people believe that it can't be passed on if you really love someone or that it can be cured by taking a shower, eating mint or having sex with an infant.  Then there's the crowd who on, discovering they're HIV positive, will try and pass it on to as many people as possible.  Muddying the issue further are the experts who suggested (to Thabo and friends) that there may not be a link between HIV and AIDS which confused the governments response even further.  A medical cure - even if one is found for the African varieties - isn't going to help much because the country cannot afford medication for 6 million+ people.

I suspect this is yet another blatant case of South Africans discriminating Finns.
You're onto us ;D

Have you ever visited Zimbabwe yourself? Wasn't it a popular vacation spot back in the day? Or am I just confused?
I haven't been to Zimbabwe though a lot of my friends are Zimbabwean and it sounds like a beautiful country (Bob not included).  It used to be a very popular tourist destination, I'd still like to see the Great Zimbabwe (for which the country is named) but then I like ancient ruins.  As an aside it's still possible to see the Victoria Falls from the Zambia side.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 12:41:31 am by Dragon »

Offline Eth

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2009, 10:21:08 am »
I assume that Eth meant that it's a huge problem rather than mocking it.  Please tell me I'm right.
I think I must have misread "problem" for "program."  South Africa's AIDS program is horrendous!

Quote
To expound: there is no social fix.  Too many people believe that it can't be passed on if you really love someone or that it can be cured by taking a shower, eating mint or having sex with an infant.  Then there's the crowd who on, discovering they're HIV positive, will try and pass it on to as many people as possible.  Muddying the issue further are the experts who suggested (to Thabo and friends) that there may not be a link between HIV and AIDS which confused the governments response even further. 
There were all kinds of similar misconceptions about AIDS in America 20+ years ago.  It certainly took a lot of effort on the part of the government and other groups to increase awareness and educate people about it.  Certainly it was very difficult for people to change their sexual habits, but many did, and HIV is relatively under control here. 

Offline Lukipela

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2009, 06:35:23 am »
There were all kinds of similar misconceptions about AIDS in America 20+ years ago.  It certainly took a lot of effort on the part of the government and other groups to increase awareness and educate people about it.  Certainly it was very difficult for people to change their sexual habits, but many did, and HIV is relatively under control here. 

Compared with the current infection rate and educational level in the populace, America was immensely better off. While there were a lot of early misconceptions in the US, most of them had to do with how the disease spread not with what kind of witch magic was needed to cure it. I think the poor South African areas are in a pretty impossible situation. Basic education is so abysmal that they can't quite grasp that magic rituals can't kill a virus, and the governments incapability to formulate any sort of response has only added to that. Add to that the huge number of infected citizens and the fact that you can't see the disease before its too late and you've got an impossible situation.

As an aside, there has been a few cases of people spreading the disease on purpose here n Finland as well. That is a really horrid thing to do.

Health care costs are completely out of control.  I've been stuck in the same dead-end job for nine years because I daren't leave the employer-provided health insurance.  I would love to be able to be self-employed at get decent insurance, but that's almost impossible now.  Hopefully we'll see some movement on that front soon. 

This is pretty absurd. People who would be ready to start businesses and generate wealth are instead forced to stay in "safe" jobs simply because health care is so expensive. In my opinion that is the biggest argument against your system, that it actually restricts entrepreneurship severely. An odd thing in the US where everyone is supposed to be able to start their own business.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2009, 11:36:10 pm »
I think I must have misread "problem" for "program."  South Africa's AIDS program is horrendous!
Ah, yes that makes more sense (and also it is).

There were all kinds of similar misconceptions about AIDS in America 20+ years ago.  It certainly took a lot of effort on the part of the government and other groups to increase awareness and educate people about it.  Certainly it was very difficult for people to change their sexual habits, but many did, and HIV is relatively under control here. 
Yup, what Lukipela said.  The problem is that every sangoma has their own agenda, the politicians are advised by crackpots and the population hasn't been educated for a couple of generations.  Trying to sort out the confusion around AIDS is damn near impossible let alone trying to explain what a virus is.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 11:40:28 pm by Dragon »

Offline Bleeding Star

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2009, 06:31:24 am »
Quote
The problem is that every sangoma has their own agenda, the politicians are advised by crackpots and the population hasn't been educated for a couple of generations.  Trying to sort out the confusion around AIDS is damn near impossible let alone trying to explain what a virus is.

Well, fuck. Is the "wear a rubber" message getting through at all? Or are condoms not widely available/too expensive?

I guess you can be glad you don't live in Zimbabwe, at least.

Offline Eth

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2009, 06:28:37 pm »
Health care costs are completely out of control.  I've been stuck in the same dead-end job for nine years because I daren't leave the employer-provided health insurance.  I would love to be able to be self-employed at get decent insurance, but that's almost impossible now.  Hopefully we'll see some movement on that front soon. 

This is pretty absurd. People who would be ready to start businesses and generate wealth are instead forced to stay in "safe" jobs simply because health care is so expensive. In my opinion that is the biggest argument against your system, that it actually restricts entrepreneurship severely. An odd thing in the US where everyone is supposed to be able to start their own business.
Of course.  The system wasn't designed that way, it just sort of evolved as a result of pressure from capitalists on legislatures, and a for-profit health system. 

Offline Lukipela

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #86 on: April 21, 2009, 09:20:22 am »
Well, fuck. Is the "wear a rubber" message getting through at all? Or are condoms not widely available/too expensive?

According to the Pope they don't work. And he seems like a stand up guy, I'm sure he knows what he is talking about.

There was a huge article in TIME this week about your election Dragon, pretty much bringing up the same points (albeit in a slightly harsher fashion) as you did. Lets hope ANC loses their majority and you get a more balanced democracy. No more Big Men!
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2009, 12:12:34 pm »
Well, fuck. Is the "wear a rubber" message getting through at all? Or are condoms not widely available/too expensive?
They're freely available in a variety of places - clinics, peoples centers, some public bathrooms etc...  It's the message - I think - that has fallen flat.  It's either not seen as manly to use a condom or not understood at all.  I sure as hell don't have a solution to this so I'm glad I don't have to try and find one.

According to the Pope they don't work. And he seems like a stand up guy, I'm sure he knows what he is talking about.
Yeah, the Pope was awesome with his all Africa tour which included maybe four countries.  Undermining the work AIDS organisations are doing by preaching against condom use was a real winner too.  *Not impressed*

There was a huge article in TIME this week about your election Dragon, pretty much bringing up the same points (albeit in a slightly harsher fashion) as you did. Lets hope ANC loses their majority and you get a more balanced democracy. No more Big Men!
Well, it'd take a small miracle for the ANC to lose their majority but as long as they lose their 2/3rds it's good enough.  Zuma is an interesting character.  It's difficult to tell if he sees himself as some sort of tribal chief who views the whole country as his chiefdom of if it's just a political face.  He is a populist leader so he'll quite happily tell everyone what they want to hear... nevertheless some of the things he's said do have a lot of merit.  As far as the corruption charges he's pulling every trick in the book to not be tried so I'm guessing that means he's guilty - no smoke without fire and all of that.  The problem is that large tracts of the population don't understand the difference between an acquittal and being found innocent and view the acquittal as some sort of vindication of his innocence.

Offline Lukipela

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2009, 07:09:47 am »
They're freely available in a variety of places - clinics, peoples centers, some public bathrooms etc...  It's the message - I think - that has fallen flat.  It's either not seen as manly to use a condom or not understood at all.  I sure as hell don't have a solution to this so I'm glad I don't have to try and find one.

Yeah, just handing people condoms isn't probably going to work well unless they understand the benefits. It's not like they often function as pleasure enhancers.

Quote
Yeah, the Pope was awesome with his all Africa tour which included maybe four countries.  Undermining the work AIDS organisations are doing by preaching against condom use was a real winner too.  *Not impressed*

I don't think that the Pope knows that there are more than four countries in Africa. Why would he care how those primitive sinners are organized as long as they do as they are told? I'm not a man to criticise religious people often, but the Pope and his organization is really damaging.

Finnish bulletin for those who might care. the leader of the populist party "True Finns" has announced his candidacy for the European Union Parliament elections. This is pretty interesting, as his party is very much against the Union. He is also currently a member of the Finnish Parliament, so I guess he'll have to skip out on that to go see "What the fuss in Brussels is about". Of course, he has also announced that he will be a candidate in the next Finnish Parliament elections, meaning he won't be gone for more than two years. So apparently he is busy and important enough to be needed everywhere at once.
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Offline Eth

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Re: Political Opinion Megathread Dump
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2009, 09:44:29 am »
Whew!  That South African election is a real nail-biter!