Battle Thralls/Fallow Slaves

[chenjesuwizard]

But then again, it is possible that they leave them there, with constant contact. They were obviously scared of us escaping the slave shield, because the Ilwrath and Spathi were stationed on the moon to watch over us.

[Eth]

  I don't think that the Ur-Quan slave shield their Battle Thralls.  Yes, they would have to leave garrison forces to keep an eye on things, but that's hardly a huge problem.  They are crafting a galactic empire, after all!  The situation we see in SC2 is exceptional, because
A.  The Shofixti did the Ur-Quan tremendous damage with the Blaze of Glory, as per the Chmmr's dialogue. 
B.  The Second Doctrinal Conflict meant that the Ur-Quan had to pull most of their ships into our quadrant to fight the Kohr-Ah.  The Ur-Quan still have the resources to occupy a large area of the quadrant and slave-shield Unzervalt. 

[Alen]

Then why would they keep the Sa matra there?

[Eth]

  I assume that's where the Kzer-Za met the Kohr-Ah. 

[Lukipela]

  I don't think that the Ur-Quan slave shield their Battle Thralls.  Yes, they would have to leave garrison forces to keep an eye on things, but that's hardly a huge problem.  They are crafting a galactic empire, after all! 

No they're not. They're preparing for the Doctrinal Conflict with the Kohr-Ah, which will finally determine who is correct. In that final conflict, only Ur-Quan may take part. No Thralls will be called in. Because of this, I can only see two smart options.

1. Use your Thralls as a forward shield. Make sure you only sacrifice Kzer-Za life when it is absolutely necessary. We know the Kzer-Za do this on a low level, i.e the Hierarchy. But if they really had a big Thrall fleet to rely on, they ought to be doing it on a large scale. They should be moving entire Thrall races with them, to make sure that they lose no Dreadnoughts and have to leave none behind. They'll need them all their ships once the Doctrinal conflict begins

2. Use your thralls on a local level, then shield them and move on. The pro is that you don't need to leave precious Dreadnoughts behind. The con is that every time you enter a new sector, you'll have bigger losses.

I just can't see the Kzer-Za sacrificing their ships in battle and leaving scores of them behind to guard Thralls when they know that they'll need every single one once they meet the Kohr-Ah. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[chenjesuwizard]

But they could just leave drones to fly around the different worlds and record battle thralls. They'd only have to collect data once every few years and that would only take one ship.

[Draxas]

Oh, because the overwhelming force that responded to your incursion at Sol at the start of SC2 really shows how effective drones are as a deterrent.

[chenjesuwizard]

Yeh, But if the Ilwrath and Spathi were still on the moon, it would be hard to defeat a fleet of them

[Eth]

Oh, because the overwhelming force that responded to your incursion at Sol at the start of SC2 really shows how effective drones are as a deterrent.

As the Chmmr stated, and as I mentioned above, the Shofixti inflicted very heavy casualties on the Ur-Quan.  The Ur-Quan fleet strength was stretched very thin, not only by the Shofixti, but also because they were engaged with the Kohr-Ah.  The situation in SC2 was hardly typical.

[Draxas]

As the Chmmr stated, and as I mentioned above, the Shofixti inflicted very heavy casualties on the Ur-Quan.  The Ur-Quan fleet strength was stretched very thin, not only by the Shofixti, but also because they were engaged with the Kohr-Ah.  The situation in SC2 was hardly typical.

I realize that. But, the idea of garrisoning entire sectors with just drones and Battle Thralls is perfectly illustrated by this exact scenario. Eventually, the Thralls get bored and leave when the realize their masters aren't coming back to check up on them anytime soon, and the drones are just competent enough to (apparently) fetch a single Thrall to fend off any attackers before self destructing or whatever happened to it. I can't imagine the Ur-Quan allowing that sort of scenario to occur when they're not completely distracted by more important matters, because any Thrall race with could easily knock out the drone fleet and declare themselves masters of the sector once they realize the Ur-Quan aren't coming back.

[Eth]

  That's the thing; the Ur-Quan probably were coming back on a regular basis, and probably left dreadnoughts to keep and eye on things in conquered areas.  The Ur-Quan had to consolidate their forces into what is labeled as their sphere on influence on the map when the situation with the Shofixti and the Kohr-Ah came to a head. 

[Lukipela]

  That's the thing; the Ur-Quan probably were coming back on a regular basis, and probably left dreadnoughts to keep and eye on things in conquered areas.  The Ur-Quan had to consolidate their forces into what is labeled as their sphere on influence on the map when the situation with the Shofixti and the Kohr-Ah came to a head. 

That's just it though. It doesn't make sense to leave Dreadnoughts behind in conquered areas, since those are the only ships that can be used for the doctrinal conflict. That'd be setting yourselves up to lose the final war. And Drones can apparently be intercepted by any old Thrall race, so they probably aren't useful for spying on Thralls to much.

[Eth]

  All of those conquered races can supply resources to the Ur-Quan, though.  That's how empires work.

[Bleeding Star]

I'm on the fence about the "are old battle thralls turned into fallow slaves" question. I think it's possible to let them stay free, as long as a few Ur-Quan or trusted thralls are around to keep things under control. To save effort and quote myself:

Quote from: Me, in another thread somewhere.
It seems that fear of the Ur-Quan keeps things working pretty smoothly most of the time - but if they not around then things fall apart pretty quickly.

Perhaps in other parts of the galaxy where races have been under the Ur-Quan for hundreds or thousands of years, there are trustworthy thralls who can keep matters under control in the absence of their masters. But in this neck of the woods, the thralls have only been conquered for a few decades, not nearly enough time to develop any sort of relationship other than one based on fear of annigilation.

Such favoured thralls would have an interest in maintaining the Hierarchy system, and perhaps only a few Ur-Quan would be required to keep an eye on things.

As for the Doctrinal Conflict: In a way it was not a fair contest, as the Kzer-Za were not allowed to use The Path of Now and Forever to it's full extent. They've been enslaving races for thousands of years, but when it comes to the crunch, for some stupid reason of honour, or tradition, they can't use their huge empire to their advantage.

It doesn't make sense to leave Dreadnoughts behind in conquered areas, since those are the only ships that can be used for the doctrinal conflict.

Which I think is stupid, as outlined above. Imagine the difference that a few Terminators, or Eluders, would have made in the Doctrinal conflict. I guess you could argue that this does suggest that all the former battle thralls were eventually slave shielded, but I'm not entirely convinced.

[Draxas]

  All of those conquered races can supply resources to the Ur-Quan, though.  That's how empires work.

The Ur-Quan really don't seem particularly interested in maintaining large scale empires, though, seeing as how they are nomadic. No matter how big your fleet is, spreading it out across half the galaxy and then trying to consolidate it for a major conflict is just plain old bad logistics. Better to simply not leave your ships behind in the first place.

Perhaps in other parts of the galaxy where races have been under the Ur-Quan for hundreds or thousands of years, there are trustworthy thralls who can keep matters under control in the absence of their masters. But in this neck of the woods, the thralls have only been conquered for a few decades, not nearly enough time to develop any sort of relationship other than one based on fear of annigilation.

That's the thing: the Ur-Quan clearly don't trust their Thralls at all, and that's smart since they're slaves first and foremost. The threat of having their races wiped out is really all that keeps any of the Thralls in check, and even the it doesn't work very well. I don't think there's a single Thrall race in our sector (except maybe the VUX) that doesn't rather cavalierly discuss or explicitly take action to disobey the Ur-Quan, and they're still RIGHT THERE, just haven't been paying much attention for the last few years. Imagine what the situation mut be like in a sector where the Ur-Quan have been absent for hundreds of years. Even the most trusted Thrall race is likely to forget that they themselves are not the masters under those conditions. More likely (at least based on our sector), the average Thrall is preparing for a bit of conquest or other naughtiness the instant their masters' back are turned.