New Movies

[Lukipela]

Depressingly, the overwhelming majority of these came out in the '80s. I guess I've never been much of a movie person. I probably don't need to really mention titles, since everyone knows and loves 'em.

I wonder about this though. Were movies really better, or were we just younger and less blasé? For instance, is Indiana Jones 4 really much worse than the first Indiana Jones movie? They're both pretty out there, and both have a whacked out ending... but we saw one while we were kids, and the other as adults.

[Eth]

I wonder about this though. Were movies really better,

No.

or were we just younger and less blasé?

This.

For instance, is Indiana Jones 4 really much worse than the first Indiana Jones movie? They're both pretty out there, and both have a whacked out ending... but we saw one while we were kids, and the other as adults.

Indiana Jones 4 is somewhat worse than Raiders, but not much.  They're both silly, implausible, and full of plot-holes.  But that's okay.

Certainly the animated fare I've been watching has improved since the 80's.  Disney, IMO, was at its lowest ebb in the 80's (The Black Cauldron, The Little Mermaid, etc.).  The Secret of NIMH was good, and Who Framed Ragoer Rabbit, but I can't think of much else.  Compare the 80's to the last decade, where we had multiple excellent releases from Pixar, Ghibli, and various other, smaller studios. 

The thing with film, books, comics, etc., is that the 90% crap is (thankfully) forgotten, leaving the 10% good stuff fixed in our mind.  Recent crap is dancing around in front of us; impossible to ignore. 

Filmmaking is becoming cheaper and cheaper (monstrously-complicated productions like Avatar aside) so it's easier for indy filmmakers to go outside the Hollywood system to achieve their personal vision.  Whoa!  I'm on a roll here.  Anyway, that's enough posty for now, Eth!

[Draxas]

For instance, is Indiana Jones 4 really much worse than the first Indiana Jones movie? They're both pretty out there, and both have a whacked out ending... but we saw one while we were kids, and the other as adults.

Indiana Jones 4 is somewhat worse than Raiders, but not much.  They're both silly, implausible, and full of plot-holes.  But that's okay.

I didn't even bother to see Crystal Skull. There's that jaded non-movie-fan in me again.

I notice, however, that you didn't try to make the same argument with Empire Strikes Back against any of the prequel films.

Certainly the animated fare I've been watching has improved since the 80's.  Disney, IMO, was at its lowest ebb in the 80's (The Black Cauldron, The Little Mermaid, etc.).  The Secret of NIMH was good, and Who Framed Ragoer Rabbit, but I can't think of much else.  Compare the 80's to the last decade, where we had multiple excellent releases from Pixar, Ghibli, and various other, smaller studios.

I must admit, Pixar has been the one consistent shining light in an otherwise dismal mire. I haven't actually seen a Pixar film since The Incredibles, though; maybe I should actually rectify that.

[Eth]

Ratatouille was amazing, as were Wall-E and Up.  Cars was actually pretty crappy, IMO, by Pixar standards. 

Just got back from Avatar.  Verdict: pretty, but dumb.  I can think of worse ways to spend 2.5 hours.  Every once in a while my brain was like, "Hey!  Remember me?" and I had to say, "Quiet, you!"

[Lukipela]

The thing with film, books, comics, etc., is that the 90% crap is (thankfully) forgotten, leaving the 10% good stuff fixed in our mind.  Recent crap is dancing around in front of us; impossible to ignore. 

I absolutely agree with that. If you look at all the movies produced in say, the 50s or 60s, most are pretty bad. We just rememebr the good stuff. Heck, there are a ton of absolutely atrocious movies from the 80s out there that we all rememebr if someone mentions them, but that are otherwise ignored as we think back to classic moviemaking.

That's not to say moviemaking doesn't change of course. different genres gain traction and then become overexploited, new styles blossom and watered out. Things change, but that is the nature of things.

I notice, however, that you didn't try to make the same argument with Empire Strikes Back against any of the prequel films.

I dunno dude. I'm not saying that every movie from back when is just as crap as many today, just that they may not be as splendid and amazing as you think. I watched Episode IV with my girlfriend a few weeks back, she had never seen it. You know what that made me realise? They say "I have a bad feeling about this" way too often. And do you think Jar-Jar is bad? At least he talks, the damned Wookie just makes stupid noises all through the movie.  It doesn't add anything, it's a dumb gimmick that makes annoying noises. And the story isn't exactly trailblazing either. Lonely hero, hot girl, lovable rogue. If I saw that movie and Episode I today, I'm not sure I'd think one was clearly a lot better than the other.

*goes into hiding*

[Draxas]

Just got back from Avatar.  Verdict: pretty, but dumb.  I can think of worse ways to spend 2.5 hours.  Every once in a while my brain was like, "Hey!  Remember me?" and I had to say, "Quiet, you!"

That pretty much sums up every review I've read for the movie. Nice effects, stupid plot.

I dunno dude. I'm not saying that every movie from back when is just as crap as many today, just that they may not be as splendid and amazing as you think. I watched Episode IV with my girlfriend a few weeks back, she had never seen it. You know what that made me realise? They say "I have a bad feeling about this" way too often. And do you think Jar-Jar is bad? At least he talks, the damned Wookie just makes stupid noises all through the movie.  It doesn't add anything, it's a dumb gimmick that makes annoying noises. And the story isn't exactly trailblazing either. Lonely hero, hot girl, lovable rogue. If I saw that movie and Episode I today, I'm not sure I'd think one was clearly a lot better than the other.

*goes into hiding*

You'll note I said Empire, not New Hope. I went back and saw bits of Ep. 4 recently as well, and yeah, in retrospect it's pretty weak. However, what we have a tendency to forget after 30+ years is that a lot of the cliches and hackneyed plot devices we've seen recycled over and over again in sci-fi that pop up in the movie, were new and interesting back then. That is, at least partially, why some movies that were great in their day seem tired and worn out when we go back to them now.

Say what you want about Chewie, but his dialog is still 10 times more interesting than anything you'll ever hear JarJar say.

[Eth]

  It's very important to put Star Wars A New Hope in the proper context.  When it was released, Hollywood was dominated by depressing, grim, "realistic" movies.  Star Wars was a breath of innocent, light, and uplifting adventure.  It was very original for its time, in some ways. 

[Lukipela]

That pretty much sums up every review I've read for the movie. Nice effects, stupid plot.

While the plot was pretty predictable, I didn't think it was stupid per se...

You'll note I said Empire, not New Hope.

I sure did. Just like you probably noted that I said that I wasn't saying that every old movie is glorified by memory, just that many are. Ghostbusters for instance, is independently awesome and will always remain so. I'm just trying to point out that a lot (not all) of the classics aren't that great, we just saw them at a malleable age. It can go the other way as well of course, Spiderman is (IMO) a lot better than He-Man was.

I went back and saw bits of Ep. 4 recently as well, and yeah, in retrospect it's pretty weak. However, what we have a tendency to forget after 30+ years is that a lot of the cliches and hackneyed plot devices we've seen recycled over and over again in sci-fi that pop up in the movie, were new and interesting back then. That is, at least partially, why some movies that were great in their day seem tired and worn out when we go back to them now.

the Scifi setting may have been new, but I don't think the plot devices were that new. I might be wrong though, I'm no film expert.

Say what you want about Chewie, but his dialog is still 10 times more interesting than anything you'll ever hear JarJar say.

I wonder what would happen if you stuck 50 10 year olds that had never heard of Star Wars in a room and showed them Chewie and Jar-Jar. Untainted by nostalgia, which one would they prefer?

[fossaman]

Obviously the hulking bear-thing that makes awesome noises.

I caught part of Episode II on TV the other day. It was terrible! I think that the entire half hour segment or so that I watched was composed entirely of cliches and tropes, with no original material whatsoever.

Of course, I really think that the new trilogy really suffers from not having a clearly defined plot goal other than 'the good guys lose in the end.' Nobody even gets a happily ever after. That's just bad writing, right there.

[Draxas]

I sure did. Just like you probably noted that I said that I wasn't saying that every old movie is glorified by memory, just that many are. Ghostbusters for instance, is independently awesome and will always remain so. I'm just trying to point out that a lot (not all) of the classics aren't that great, we just saw them at a malleable age. It can go the other way as well of course, Spiderman is (IMO) a lot better than He-Man was.

I cannot believe you brough up He-Man. Even at the time, at the peak (or possibly the start of the decline) of the toys' popularity, that movie was still trash. I remeber seeing that as a kid and wondering why it was so far removed from everything I expected it to be; none of the characters seemed even vaguely related to their original counterparts (if they had them at all), and they were going on and on about some weird musical key thing. I distinctly recall being profoundly disappointed (and possibly falling asleep partway through).

And of course, as you say, Ghostbusters is truly awesome, even today.

I wonder what would happen if you stuck 50 10 year olds that had never heard of Star Wars in a room and showed them Chewie and Jar-Jar. Untainted by nostalgia, which one would they prefer?

I think there wouldn't be much of a contest once Chewie ripped JarJar's arms off.

Seriously, though, this is part of the reason why the prequels sucked so bad. Everything in them seemed calculated and focus-tested to try to be as "radical" and/or "kid-appeal" as posssible, and the combination all came off as weak, insipid, uninspired, and at it's worst, just downright disrespectful to what came before that made Star Wars such a beloved series. Granted,we were starting to see a little bit of that in Retrun of the Jedi with the Ewoks, but they didn't go nearly as balls-to-the-wall with it as they did in the prequels.

[Rider]

It could be worse, this thing opened my eyes... even though it's 70 bloody minutes long! It's an amazing peace of work though, definitely worth checking out entirely.

[fossaman]

Wow, burn. I just finished the first segment of that. The bit at the end of it was a real thought-inducer. Definitely going to watch the rest of it.

[Eth]

That was awesome, Rider.  Thanks for the link.  My wife and I laughed our asses off.

[Bleeding Star]

Not sure if it counts as recent, but has anyone seen District 9? Thought that was pretty awesome, especially the performace by the lead actor. Amazing CG, as well, though not quite up to the standard of Avatar. Better plot, though.

[Nuclear]

Oh yeah, I've seen District 9! Aside from the unnecessary use of vulgar slanguage, was pretty good. I thought the alien depictions where kind of random though and I never like the unscientific idea of an alien turning a human into another alien or things like that. Yeah, the CG was good and I love the abundance of "Tense" scenes, also like the way humans and aliens can communicate with each other even though they have completely diffrent ways of talking .
Overall, was a good movie but not as much scientific thought as other sci-fis.