Gauging Support

[Trekkie]

Hi,

I returned to this board after *counts* my 13 year-old self attempted to create and run, and participate in a few RP's here. So I'm back to see if there is still an opportunity to create an RP here!

So yea, this poll is just to gauge if there is any chance of creating a new RP in this forum, following the same idea as one of the previous ones (control a SC Ship/Race) and also to check if anyone would be willing to help create an RP if enough support is found.

So vote, and maybe post your opinions/offers of help/exclamations of support here...

[Shiver]

Polls are mostly useless. Ask for input, not votes. 10 votes of support and zero posts would be a bad sign.


I'm not much for roleplay and wouldn't be bothered to read an RP thread let alone contribute to one unless there was some unusually high writing quality involved. Good luck finding interested participants.

[fossaman]

I might be interested. It would depend entirely on the setting and plot hook you have planned, as well as how you're planning on setting things up.

Luki's RP is fun in large part because he's put a lot of work into it. It's more like he's running a slightly abstracted tabletop game with only one player, whose actions are controlled by committee. The classic RP threads on this board are more like a story with a whole bunch of writers, but no central directing element. The first requires one exceptional writer for success; the latter requires several, and some mediocre ones thrown in for good measure.

So, what's your plan?

[Draxas]

I might participate, but as Fossa said, you would need to have a story. Plotless meandering isn't going to last long, nor be terribly interesting.

[Trekkie]

well, i was hoping that there would be enough interest for maybe a small group of people interested in an RP to possibly meet over an IM (MSN for example) to plan it out, that way i was hoping that the resultant plot and RP would be much more interesting and organized and thus draw a good number of players. it would also allow for plot holes and other mistakes to be pointed out that one person planning an RP would miss.

So, it was a small "committee" of people to help plan and organize the RP. Having this setup would also, i believe, help to prevent it from dieing, as the RP wouldn't depend on a singular person providing the plot and organizing it, if one person suddenly left, then the other members of the committee would still be able to continue the RP as they have the required plot and premise to continue moving the plot forward for other players.

[Eth]

  I can barely motive myself to post in Luki's thread right now.  Count me out, I'm afraid. 

[Trekkie]

So i assume by the lack of posts that their is little support for this idea?

[Lukipela]

Hey Trekkie, and welcome back. Your idea for a large scale Star Control RP sounds intriguing. I'll be happy to help out with ideas and such, but I'm afraid that I'm a bit busy with some other SC projects at the moment. I'll be happy to bounce ideas with you though, in case you want to. Come Christmas, I may well be ready to invest more time in this though.

When you say RP, what is it you're rally thinking about. Something as free - form as ABKS, but with more than one player? That requires quite a bit of planning, and you need to come up with (or adapt) a system for it. As I recall the old StarControl rpg was more on a fleet level though, moving ships around, colonising and fighting. If you're going to play on that level, I have a little side project that might be of some help, basically just ship combat calculations and things like that. Basically, what kind of RPG are we talking about here? As a reference for SC games, I can't refrain from advertising Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines as well, which has just finished it's first mission.

Anyhow, planning a story by committee is pretty challenging. The idea behind not having it keel over is good, but multiple egos usually means that at some point you disagree too strongly to continue. You may want to sketch up a story of your own first, and see if people are interested in playing a small adventure in your world. That's what I've been doing with ABKS, although it has admittedly grown a tad more than I expected. It was originally going to be a slight prelude for a much more planned CYOA, but that one will now come much later.

Another problem is, as you've seen, that the SC community doesn't have that many really active members. There are some writers over on frungylovers as well, but I'm not sure how ready they'd be to go. They had a big RP planned out about a year ago, but I think nothing ever came of it. Check with Alana or Zarla over there, they might be able to help you.

*Heavy Space* is here for you of course, if you want to run a small or large RP. Be prepared that things move rather slowly though, so unless you bring in a lot of new players, you might have to wait quite a bit before things take off.

So i assume by the lack of posts that their is little support for this idea?

Keep in mind that it's summer on the northern hemisphere right now, a lot of our semi-regulars are even more irregular than normally. Things here can move pretty slow.

[Trekkie]

Hey Trekkie, and welcome back. Your idea for a large scale Star Control RP sounds intriguing. I'll be happy to help out with ideas and such, but I'm afraid that I'm a bit busy with some other SC projects at the moment. I'll be happy to bounce ideas with you though, in case you want to. Come Christmas, I may well be ready to invest more time in this though.

This could actually prove useful for the RP, as until christmas(if we manage to have a RP that survives that long ) you would effectively be impartial to any happenings in the thread. On other forums where Role-playing occurs, a common sight is arguments that are fought over things such as:

"no way could you have killed that monster!"
"i SO could!"
"no-way! you couldn't have dodged practically all his swipes like that! your god-modding!"
"no i am not! I'm playing totally realistically! my guy is a trained soldier at top of his class, he can't be beaten by a mere monster!"
"**** this then, I'm not playing with god-modders"

or something to that affect and these arguments are generally extremely difficult to resolve as all those involved are mostly other players in the RP and so get accused of just trying to get their own agenda's met. The presence of an impartial moderator would help to resolve these arguments in a way that would keep all players....playing

though this would be entirely up to whether you would be willing to take up this post.

When you say RP, what is it you're rally thinking about. Something as free - form as ABKS, but with more than one player? That requires quite a bit of planning, and you need to come up with (or adapt) a system for it. As I recall the old StarControl rpg was more on a fleet level though, moving ships around, colonising and fighting. If you're going to play on that level, I have a little side project that might be of some help, basically just ship combat calculations and things like that. Basically, what kind of RPG are we talking about here? As a reference for SC games, I can't refrain from advertising Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines as well, which has just finished it's first mission.

I was thinking of something along the same lines as my previous RP, players each control a ship etc. but i was thinking that there would need to be some way of drawing all the players together, or having them start together and work towards a common goal in order to keep it interesting and allow the plot to move forward.

Another problem with this form i have come across is conversations, which can sometimes take many posts to cover, so i was thinking about something like giving each other IM addresses so that during conversations, players can plan out the conversation though an IM convo, then have just one person post it, this i believe would help to cut down on unnecessary posts and also help the plot moving as it won't get bogged-down as easily.

However, taking some idea's from your RP, i believe it would be possible to combine the concepts, perhaps having one person assigned to each character (with the possibility of more being written in as needed) and then using the same structure as yours, with each person only saying what actions the wish there characters to take and then someone else writing the next part of the story.

Anyhow, planning a story by committee is pretty challenging. The idea behind not having it keel over is good, but multiple egos usually means that at some point you disagree too strongly to continue. You may want to sketch up a story of your own first, and see if people are interested in playing a small adventure in your world. That's what I've been doing with ABKS, although it has admittedly grown a tad more than I expected. It was originally going to be a slight prelude for a much more planned CYOA, but that one will now come much later.

This was what i thought would be the main flaw with my idea, and I've been trying to think of a way around it, however all i have come up with is having a chairman would have the overruling say in the case of an un-resolvable debate, however i don't think this would solve the problem of people getting annoyed and leaving the committee.

Another problem is, as you've seen, that the SC community doesn't have that many really active members. There are some writers over on frungylovers as well, but I'm not sure how ready they'd be to go. They had a big RP planned out about a year ago, but I think nothing ever came of it. Check with Alana or Zarla over there, they might be able to help you.

*Heavy Space* is here for you of course, if you want to run a small or large RP. Be prepared that things move rather slowly though, so unless you bring in a lot of new players, you might have to wait quite a bit before things take off.

yea, i was thinking of trying to start a small RP of my own if this doesn't come to fruition.

So i assume by the lack of posts that their is little support for this idea?

Keep in mind that it's summer on the northern hemisphere right now, a lot of our semi-regulars are even more irregular than normally. Things here can move pretty slow.

yup, I'm currently on my School hols up here in sunny Scotland

[Lukipela]

This could actually prove useful for the RP, as until christmas(if we manage to have a RP that survives that long ) you would effectively be impartial to any happenings in the thread. On other forums where Role-playing occurs, a common sight is arguments that are fought over things such as:

This may be a good idea. Not sure how much of a judge anyone makes without knowing the material quite well though. Let's return to this later on when the Rp is already going, I'll see if I'm competent enough to do something about it.

I was thinking of something along the same lines as my previous RP, players each control a ship etc. but i was thinking that there would need to be some way of drawing all the players together, or having them start together and work towards a common goal in order to keep it interesting and allow the plot to move forward.

I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with that one, were you essentially playing as ships, or did the players visit planets/stations/places?

Another problem with this form i have come across is conversations, which can sometimes take many posts to cover, so i was thinking about something like giving each other IM addresses so that during conversations, players can plan out the conversation though an IM convo, then have just one person post it, this i believe would help to cut down on unnecessary posts and also help the plot moving as it won't get bogged-down as easily.

This is an interesting idea, which would certainly help save time. It might be a tad hard if the players are in different time zones though, such as our Aussies and Americans.

However, taking some idea's from your RP, i believe it would be possible to combine the concepts, perhaps having one person assigned to each character (with the possibility of more being written in as needed) and then using the same structure as yours, with each person only saying what actions the wish there characters to take and then someone else writing the next part of the story.

That is an ambitious goal though, if I understand it correctly. While ABKS is pretty easy to handle most of the time, writing several different characters at very different locations would be much more demanding. Unless you were thinking that the players mostly write their own characters? In that case the game again becomes dependent on the players, one leaving causes trouble.

This was what i thought would be the main flaw with my idea, and I've been trying to think of a way around it, however all i have come up with is having a chairman would have the overruling say in the case of an un-resolvable debate, however i don't think this would solve the problem of people getting annoyed and leaving the committee.

To be honest, i don't think there's much of a way around it. Someone has to pull the strings, and that person also needs to be completely in charge of the story and interpreting what happens, just like in a regular RP. Committee work always means that you'll have people who wants to have more of a say whilst doing very little actual work. I suppose you could design the world by committee though, and then run the system on your own. But then the committee participants can't really play, since they know all the secrets.

yea, i was thinking of trying to start a small RP of my own if this doesn't come to fruition.

If you do decide to do something, I'll try my best to participate in it.

yup, I'm currently on my School hols up here in sunny Scotland

Another thing is that many SC fans are on the older side. I'm on my vacation right now, and thus only check in now and then. I'm guessing the same is true fro some others. The fact that many of us are a bit older also means we're juggling work, family life and other things which makes it hard/impractical to spend too much time on line. Especially those of us who have little "reliable" computing time can't really participate in torunaments, IM convos and the likes.

[Draxas]

This could actually prove useful for the RP, as until christmas(if we manage to have a RP that survives that long ) you would effectively be impartial to any happenings in the thread. On other forums where Role-playing occurs, a common sight is arguments that are fought over things such as:

"no way could you have killed that monster!"
"i SO could!"
"no-way! you couldn't have dodged practically all his swipes like that! your god-modding!"
"no i am not! I'm playing totally realistically! my guy is a trained soldier at top of his class, he can't be beaten by a mere monster!"
"**** this then, I'm not playing with god-modders"

or something to that affect and these arguments are generally extremely difficult to resolve as all those involved are mostly other players in the RP and so get accused of just trying to get their own agenda's met. The presence of an impartial moderator would help to resolve these arguments in a way that would keep all players....playing

This is pretty much why I've found that most RPs need to adhere to one of 2 policies:

1. Whatever someone posts is what happens. Other players can alter the events to a limited extent by writing the same scenario from a different perspective, and game moderators can force editing to especially egregious problem posts, but most of the time the jist of the post is maintained verbatim. This requires both a very diligent and even-handed moderation staff, as well as some very skilled RPers, in order to make it work well, both of which can be hard to come by. Most of all, all players need to be aware of this rule before they start playing, and mature enough to roll with the punches when it doesn't benefit them.
2. There is a battle system with fixed rules in place to handle combat. This ensures that there is no way to argue about who can kill what, because the combat follows a regimented path from start to finish. However, the problem is often that folks forget that they are RPing while the mechanics take over, or if they do RP their combats, they can sometimes get overly long and silly as things drag on and people run out of ideas. Overall, though,this tends to be a great way to minimize argument; if you're expecting that to be a serious problem, then you should definitely work up a combat system before starting.

This next bit is going to include a bit of self-indulgence and advertising. Hopefully, the moderators won't mind too much, since I'm trying to use it to help.

I've run and participated in forum RPGs of both varieties. Both types can be done extremely well as long as you have creative and mature players, and even handed and skilled moderators. There are great examples (hopefully that's not stroking my own ego too much) of these at this site:

http://n3b.proboards14.com

If you scroll down to some of the topic boards, you'll find that the PDBA follows Type 1, while Clash of Realities or Soul Shadow follows Type 2. Feel free to browse, though please don't pilfer the Type 2 systems verbatim without asking the appropriate folks first.

You know what? What the heck, I may have a bunch of other projects on my plate currently, but I'd be willing to help you out as well as participate if you're interested. As Luki can attest, I have a bit of a penchant for digging around in the guts of other people's games and suggesting improvements, so I'd be happy to serve as a sounding board if you'd like.

Now for the shameless plug: If anyone is interested in what we've got at the above board, Clash is starting back up again. I'm looking for some new players, so please feel free to sign up.

Mods, hopefully that was tolerable. Let me know if it's not so I can clean it up. Thanks!

[Lukipela]

Mods, hopefully that was tolerable. Let me know if it's not so I can clean it up. Thanks!

It's fine, although looking for active role players on the SCDB is probably not going to get you far

Personally, I prefer the second option, I enjoy having clear cut rules (at least for the more important fights, especially when it's PvP) because in my experience things tend to go south at some point otherwise.

[Trekkie]

Mods, hopefully that was tolerable. Let me know if it's not so I can clean it up. Thanks!

It's fine, although looking for active role players on the SCDB is probably not going to get you far

Personally, I prefer the second option, I enjoy having clear cut rules (at least for the more important fights, especially when it's PvP) because in my experience things tend to go south at some point otherwise.

i think it would probably be best to sort out the game mechanics first, before any Plot brainstorming. A plot is no use without a game system to utilize it.

We could perhaps use a Hybrid-system, where the unimportant fights, such as small player-vs-NPC can be played using system 1, as these are generally not important enough to effect the overall outcome of the plot.
Maybe something like a patrol vessel that can be easily dispatched tries to stop your ship, the player can then create and entertaining battle scene

Whereas more important fights, such as PVP or major NPC Conflicts could use a battle system which makes use of stats etc.

If there is any movement between systems, we could perhaps use a system to govern that too, perhaps a certain number of points allocated to each ship class based on their speeds? i.e the Supox Blade could travel 7 Parsecs/[time unit] whereas the VUX could only go 2 parsecs/[time unit]

Conversations i think could just be carried out the normal way, each character posts what they say, however in-order to keep posts from becoming one-liners we might have to figure out some way of streamlining this. If timezones permit, an IM client could be used in some occasions as detailed above.

[Draxas]

While the hybrid system sounds good in concept, it would likely be a problem in execution. If you implement a rigid combat system, you need to commit to using it, even for battles that might seem inconsequential. Otherwise, you leave it open to interpretation as to what "inconsequential" means: While you may only consider that scouting vessel vs. fleet example as qualifying, someone else may interpret a fleet battle of 200 vs. 50 as qualifying, and someone else may apply flawed logic about UQM's player vs. AI melee engine to decide that their 5 Juggers should have no trouble decimating 100 enemy ships without effort. You need only look back less than a week on the forums to see real examples of this argument being made in posts.

So yeah, nix on the hybrid system, as far as I'm concerned. A better idea would be to let the victor (and perhaps even the loser as well) RP the outcome once the combat system decides who that is. This way the result is already set, and nobody can be accused of not giving an opponent a fair chance, but it also allows players to get creative, which is the entire point.

A movement system might be less necessary. It should be fairly obvious which ships can outrun others, and implementing a system there would just bog things down more likely than not.

[Angelfish]

For inconsequential or big battles, ofcourse you can use a more simple version of the rigid combat system.. ie. just a table of ship vs ship chances of winning, which determines the outcome of the battle.