Mycon Question

[Bleeding Star]

Eth rants: The assumption that biologically-based technology is superior to manufactured technology is an absurd sci-fi trope. 

 
Sure, I'll give you that.

Let me turn this around at you: Why would you think that an organism could survive in space when science has never discovered anything like that?

Relax, guy! It's sci-fi. An the Mycon were specifically engineered for the purpose. As for the cosmic rays, it seems resonable to suggest that the mycon have sophisticated DNA (or equivalent)-repair mechanisms.

There are plenty of technological devices that simply could not be made with organic materials, no matter what sort of hand-waving you do.

Yeah, that's often a problem. While I can buy the concept of a space-faring organism, organic lasers (and/or homing plasmoids) are perhaps a stretch too far.

[Angelfish]

Eth rants: The assumption that biologically-based technology is superior to manufactured technology is an absurd sci-fi trope. 

Yeah, that's often a problem. While I can buy the concept of a space-faring organism, organic lasers (and/or homing plasmoids) are perhaps a stretch too far.

Why not? Googling around for a few seconds there even exists such a thing as an organic laser .

[Death 999]

secondly: how can it survive the initial no oxygen or gravity thing, that would kill it almost instantly.

Gravity is irrelevant. And your focus on Oxygen shows your pitiful aerobecentrism. (At this point I take off my Kohr-Ah hat)

The one difficulty, the one thing that matters, is that live things need to absorb further material. In space, further material is extremely, insanely hard to find.

As for organics vs metals... what's the dichotomy here? Organics are capable of using chemistry to work with metal. What do you think your bones are? Yes, our organic chemistry has chosen to work with Calcium, which is pretty lousy from the materials properties point of view and is mainly easy to work with chemically; but iron or even complex alloys are in principle usable. An engineered organism could grow a metallic skin/hull (subject to dietary restrictions, of course).

[Angelfish]

secondly: how can it survive the initial no oxygen or gravity thing, that would kill it almost instantly.

Gravity is irrelevant. And your focus on Oxygen shows your pitiful aerobecentrism. (At this point I take off my Kohr-Ah hat)

The one difficulty, the one thing that matters, is that live things need to absorb further material. In space, further material is extremely, insanely hard to find.

Not if you are born in a nebula .

As for organics vs metals... what's the dichotomy here? Organics are capable of using chemistry to work with metal. What do you think your bones are? Yes, our organic chemistry has chosen to work with Calcium, which is pretty lousy from the materials properties point of view and is mainly easy to work with chemically; but iron or even complex alloys are in principle usable. An engineered organism could grow a metallic skin/hull (subject to dietary restrictions, of course).

We do use iron already! Our blood uses it heavily

[Lukipela]

Let me turn this around at you: Why would you think that an organism could survive in space when science has never discovered anything like that? 

Let me introduce you to Mr Tardigrade. He and his people can survive absolute zero, vacuum, intense radiation and so forth. And he and his ilk are just dumb creatures that evolved into indestructibility. If you had the ability to manipulate genes, you could certainly create things that can survive in space. other than that, your argument seems a little off. science hasn't discovered anything to implicate that crystals can be sentient either and yet we accept Chenjesu at face value.

All in all, I'm not arguing that living organisms are inherently superior to mechanical solutions. But I don't think they are inferior either. Cells are pretty much miniature factories, capable of creating any and all necessary building blocks for pretty much anything. An organism that is resistant to vacuum doesn't need a hermetically sealed ship,although they would need isolation to keep the warmth inside. Self correction of the genome can protect against radiation (although not that well in the Mycons case).  How the weapon works I have no clue, but organic materials can store energy pretty well here in Earth. Perhaps the whatchamacall it secretes an enzyme that triggers a meltdown reaction in their bodies. Screaming in soundless agony they float through space, giving their very bodies for the welfare of Juffo-Wup.

Beyond anything else, the SC races show signs of specialisation. I don't think it's a great leap of faith to assume that the M:bots are pretty mechanically advanced while the Chenjesu use a lot of crystal technology and the Mycon use biologics. Ifti makes you happier, I guess one could argue that the Mycon ship is an example of why biological ships aren't in great demand, it's big, slow and clumsy.

[Angelfish]

I always thought that mycon ships were so slow because almost all energy goes to life support, maintaining the high temperatures in which the mycon thrive.

[Eth]

  I'm plenty familiar with tardigrades (my wife was studying them a few years ago).  They can survive in a variety of adverse conditions for decades in suspended animation.  

  Biological systems are superior for some applications, mechanical systems are superior for others.  Can we agree on that?

  Did you just say that an organism needed isolation "to keep the warmth inside?"  Vacuum is a perfect insulator; one of the biggest problems in spaceflight is how to get rid of heat.  

  The ship does appear to be rather inefficient, I admit.  And it has an organic art style to it.  And the "Deep Children" from SC3 were basically green podships.  So yeah, they could be organic; I just like to maintain a skeptical outlook.  

[Lukipela]

 I'm plenty familiar with tardigrades (my wife was studying them a few years ago).  They can survive in a variety of adverse conditions for decades in suspended animation.  

But your argument seemed to be "Genetically modified organisms can't possibly survive in space because we know of no natural organisms that can do so". I showed that this was incorrect and went with the assumption that if something unmodified can survive, something modified especially for that purpose can be made to thrive.

 Biological systems are superior for some applications, mechanical systems are superior for others.  Can we agree on that?

Sure. although I wonder if that distinction disappears once you get far down enough. I mean, really, what is the difference between small cells working on a molecular level and tiny robots doing the same? not everything prodcued by a cell needs to be organic in nature if you're good enough at modifying it.

 Did you just say that an organism needed isolation "to keep the warmth inside?"  Vacuum is a perfect insulator; one of the biggest problems in spaceflight is how to get rid of heat.  

Gah, brainfart. you're right of course. 

 The ship does appear to be rather inefficient, I admit.  And it has an organic art style to it.  And the "Deep Children" from SC3 were basically green podships.  So yeah, they could be organic; I just like to maintain a skeptical outlook.  

We know you do. after all ,you're a skeptic.

[Eth]

 I'm plenty familiar with tardigrades (my wife was studying them a few years ago).  They can survive in a variety of adverse conditions for decades in suspended animation.  

But your argument seemed to be "Genetically modified organisms can't possibly survive in space because we know of no natural organisms that can do so". I showed that this was incorrect and went with the assumption that if something unmodified can survive, something modified especially for that purpose can be made to thrive.

A tardigrade can't do anything when it's in a cryptobiotic state.  All metabolic functions cease.  I submit that you haven't proven much of anything. 

 Biological systems are superior for some applications, mechanical systems are superior for others.  Can we agree on that?

Sure. although I wonder if that distinction disappears once you get far down enough. I mean, really, what is the difference between small cells working on a molecular level and tiny robots doing the same? not everything prodcued by a cell needs to be organic in nature if you're good enough at modifying it.

I'm not sure what the relevance is, given that we're talking about huge spaceships.  Again, I imagine that biological systems are superior for some applications, and non-organic systems for others.

[Alen]

Bacteria would be a good example.

[Death 999]

Not if you are born in a nebula .

Nebulae, except in collapse events, are what on earth we call 'ultrahigh vacuum'. Your only options, if you're microscopic, are growing on an ice grain or something, then sporing and waiting for a kind of ridiculously long time in the hopes of running into another one.

If you're macroscopic, you need to somehow gather this super-tenuous stuff up in order to fuel your gathering-stuff up efforts. Maybe, just maybe, you can use solar energy to provide energy, shoot electron beams to charge up nearby particles, then have them be attracted back to you by opposite charge attraction (electrons will find you, no need to worry about dumping them).

[Smoke353]

Not if you are born in a nebula .

Nebulae, except in collapse events, are what on earth we call 'ultrahigh vacuum'. Your only options, if you're microscopic, are growing on an ice grain or something, then sporing and waiting for a kind of ridiculously long time in the hopes of running into another one.

If you're macroscopic, you need to somehow gather this super-tenuous stuff up in order to fuel your gathering-stuff up efforts. Maybe, just maybe, you can use solar energy to provide energy, shoot electron beams to charge up nearby particles, then have them be attracted back to you by opposite charge attraction (electrons will find you, no need to worry about dumping them).

That might actually be possible, but I reaaaaally doubt life would start on its own out there.  Maybe something could be introduced to a nebula that could survive there though.