Games of comparable quality to SC2??

[Lukipela]

Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic is firm favourite here.  I'm even willing to forgive the retarded AI because it's just so beautiful.

I played through  AoW2, but I gave up on Shadow Magic halfway through the third campaign (finished the starter one and the elves). The game is beautiful, the engine pretty handy (except for the stupid colonisation aspect) and I really love the combat system, superior to the HoMM system IMO. But the A.I is just so retarded. It gets old to spend half a level skulking and hiding from superior forces, only to then crush them after you've bled them enough. The fact that every level has dozens of secrets that take hours to explore was nice, but ultimately way too time consuming for what meagre bounty you got. And the bounty disappeared at the end of each campaign anyhow. Despite that I loved the game, the Tigrans and Draconians, the Shadow Demons and the Slavers, they were all just great. Great variation in units.

[Shiver]

I'll touch on the Age of Wonders series since three people brought it up. I've played all three and haven't beaten any of them.

The first game's campaign is the most difficult. I don't know what they fed the AI in this game, but it's quite violent and the later games could have used that. Maybe there's scripted attacks involved? I'm not sure. This would be a good thing, but it seems to reward munchkin tricks (like starting your hero with Lightning Strike and using it to stunlock everything) over real strategy. Then you have terrible boring levels no one should ever have to play like the two in the Dwarf campaign. AoW1 is also the most offensive in terms of "You're going to win. Keep playing this beaten level for the next few hours!" All that said, the challenge alone tempts me to try playing it again.

Age of Wonders II has some laughably uneven difficulty. The first campaign level is much more difficult than most others. I only played one that was more difficult. The rest consisted of "build up stack of doom, steamroll everything". Levels are also generally less interesting than in AoW:SW. Does this get more fun in the second half of the campaign?

Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic is the only game with real unit balance thanks to a fan patch you can download. This is the only game I would consider playing scenarios or multiplayer because of that. Hated the shadow demons and their alternate dimension tileset. I played 'til one of the nomad levels where the AI ignored me the whole game, sat around waited for me to build up and kill it. Maybe this game deserves a second chance.

[Alen]

Age of wonders 2 was a really good game. But the only pain about it is when you played on LAN because every fight someone got into you have to watch, so the games would end up taking days.

[Bleeding Star]

First game, second one or Shadow Magic? I loved the two later games, but the A.I is painfulyl thick. After a while in each level you get to the point where you know you're going to win, but you also know that it'll take another two hours to massacre all the A.I's free troops.

I actually really prefer the first one. Not quite sure what it is, as the latter two are better balanced and have much nicer graphics. But the AI in AoW1 is just not quite as stupid, and the campaigns are much better designed. The campaign in Shadow Magic is almost insultingly prefunctory. Consensus seems to be that Shadow Magic is much better as a multiplayer game. I've toyed with the idea of getting into some Play by email games but haven't yet got off my arse.

The first game's campaign is the most difficult. I don't know what they fed the AI in this game, but it's quite violent and the later games could have used that. Maybe there's scripted attacks involved? I'm not sure. This would be a good thing, but it seems to reward munchkin tricks (like starting your hero with Lightning Strike and using it to stunlock everything) over real strategy.

I purposely limit myself when designing my hero to avoid such cheese. Lightning strike and cold strike are particularly nasty, especially when combined with first strike and high attack and defence.

Then you have terrible boring levels no one should ever have to play like the two in the Dwarf campaign. AoW1 is also the most offensive in terms of "You're going to win. Keep playing this beaten level for the next few hours!" All that said, the challenge alone tempts me to try playing it again.

Actually, I found AoW2 and SM much worse in this respect. In Aow1, once it become obvious I'm going to win, I just make a beeline straight for the enemy leader and that's the end of that. Not so easy to do in the other games.

Age of Wonders II has some laughably uneven difficulty. The first campaign level is much more difficult than most others. I only played one that was more difficult. The rest consisted of "build up stack of doom, steamroll everything". Levels are also generally less interesting than in AoW:SW. Does this get more fun in the second half of the campaign?

The Aow2 campaigh was bad. As far as I can recall, it doesn't get any better.

Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic is the only game with real unit balance thanks to a fan patch you can download. This is the only game I would consider playing scenarios or multiplayer because of that.

I really need to check out this patch, if I don't OD on AoW1, anyhow.

Hated the shadow demons and their alternate dimension tileset. I played 'til one of the nomad levels where the AI ignored me the whole game, sat around waited for me to build up and kill it. Maybe this game deserves a second chance.

I wasn't a fan of the two new races or environments either. The passive AI was infuriating. But as I said, I've heard it's better in multiplayer.

[Shiver]

I've toyed with the idea of getting into some Play by email games but haven't yet got off my arse.

PBEM takes too long, don't do it. I'd be willing to multiplay with you in theory.

Actually, I found AoW2 and SM much worse in this respect. In Aow1, once it become obvious I'm going to win, I just make a beeline straight for the enemy leader and that's the end of that. Not so easy to do in the other games.

Hm... why didn't I think of that? For some reason I obsessive-compulsively try to take every patch of dirt with a flag slot on it when I play strategy games. Ceasing that would be a good idea. It still doesn't make the Dwarf campaign go any faster, though.

The Aow2 campaigh was bad. As far as I can recall, it doesn't get any better.

Oh.

I really need to check out this patch, if I don't OD on AoW1, anyhow.

Just make sure you don't install the Dwiggs mod along with that patch if you play AoW:SM. They introduce new races even more horrid than the SM additions. I believe one of them was called "The Fae Folk". Because the game's setting really needed to get fruitier than it already was.

[gihren]

@ Cedric

Do you know how to get One Must Fall to work on Vista?  I've tried DOS-Box, but the game moves at about 10x speed.  I loved that game.  And Quarantine Taxi.

[Lukipela]

Age of wonders 2 was a really good game. But the only pain about it is when you played on LAN because every fight someone got into you have to watch, so the games would end up taking days.

Heh, I didn't know about that. but it makes sense of course, since no one can move during that time. Another thing i hated was that you could never let the computer handle these battles for you, since it'd invariably fail and lose far more units than it ought to.

Bleeding Star: I might be up for a PBEM, but how would the actual battles work in that? i think playing this on-line otherwise woudl just take an insane amount of time, even small maps can take hours.

Also for the both of you, you don't need to take every flag in AoW2 either, just every city with a wizards Tower. the maps are foten set up so that you'll be forcd to take every city anyway, but you can use the AI's extreme stupidity to your advantage and just take and burn those cities. Campaigns in AoW2:SM seemed to punish the curious, staying put and building an army was fine, but scouting too far ahead would often bring the enemy into a "send random units at you" mode.

[Alen]

Ya I guess that AOW was the first of that kind of game genre, to bad they didn't think of having an auto simulator.

[Bleeding Star]

PBEM takes too long, don't do it. I'd be willing to multiplay with you in theory.

Getting large blocks of uninterrupted time on the computer can be difficult for me. If I can't get my shit together to play Super-Melee online, then AoW is probably out of the question at the moment. PBEM would suit me a lot better, but as you say, it looks like it takes months to finish a game.

Bleeding Star: I might be up for a PBEM, but how would the actual battles work in that? i think playing this on-line otherwise woudl just take an insane amount of time, even small maps can take hours.

In PBEM, human vs. human battles are all carried out in Fast combat - which takes away a lot of the fun. Still, a lot of people still seem to enjoy it anyhow, judging from the AoW Heaven forums.

[Eth]

PBEM would suit me a lot better, but as you say, it looks like it takes months to finish a game.

It took like 18 months for us to finish our last Civ IV game.  It makes for quite an experience!

[Shiver]

PBEM would suit me a lot better, but as you say, it looks like it takes months to finish a game.

It took like 18 months for us to finish our last Civ IV game.  It makes for quite an experience!

I could never commit to that, not even for a great game like Civ IV. Who won?

[Eth]

  My friend from work, who played Japan.  I (Greece) was his staunch ally, and came in second. 

[ZEXy]

The original Fallout is my favorite video game. The writing is top-notch, on the same quality level as Star Control. Unlike what passes for RPGs these days, your Fallout character's success or failure is based entirely on character skill, not player skill.

For real-time space combat, Star Trek: Starfleet Command will always have a special place in my heart. The campaign story is solid, but not quite as good as SC or Fallout. Starfleet Command II is essentially Starfleet Command with more races, more ships and a different storyline.

Any other game I wanted to suggest have already been mentioned. It's pretty hard to find games that are up there with SC!

[Lukipela]

In PBEM, human vs. human battles are all carried out in Fast combat - which takes away a lot of the fun. Still, a lot of people still seem to enjoy it anyhow, judging from the AoW Heaven forums.

Oh. Never mind then. I thought the tactical battle was the greatest thing in the game. Having that as Fast combat would mean losing plenty of units because of the A.I and its general suckiness.

EDIT: I was also going to ask ZEXy if he/she is a frungylovers fan, but now that there's an icon I guess the question is redundant. Welcome to the forums!

Also 18 months CIV IV sounds amazing, but I don't think I could do it. Too short an attention span.

[Alen]

I agree I can only muscle in a day at most before I decide that the game is boring and leave.