About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by palmpet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:58 pm

krulle wrote:Heck, those jokes. I remember them being bad. Maybe that's why I forgot the topics of the jokes.....

I never noticed the Precursor bell/horn joke, which may indicate that the Ortogs of SC3 (which has never happened anyway) was not pulled out of thin air, but this line specifically.
Makes SC3 fit slightly better into the lore, if it weren't for the creepy Syreen, and, and, and ....
Makes me wonder if the Ortog are also living wihin the Umgah sphere and they already noticed a connection between them...
Actually... I'm pretty sure those lines aren't in the game. I'm fairly sure Trog made them up.
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:09 pm

krulle wrote:Heck, those jokes. I remember them being bad. Maybe that's why I forgot the topics of the jokes.....
Well, in all honesty, palmpet is indeed correct; I actually made up those jokes and then impersonated the Umgah’s behavioral style for added flare. I’m glad it worked and was at least believable enough… perhaps even a little better than I had originally anticipated.

Do the brainwashed version of Umgah actually tell jokes? In repeated encounters where they’d allow us to leave, they’d greet us proclaiming how funny they are and even made fun of me once:

Umgah - “WHAT. SO. FUNNY. HUMAN. EARTHLING. YOUR. FACE. FUNNY. THING. HAR. HAR. HAR.” (real quote)

…but that was the closest thing to a joke that I heard.

To clarify their conception, I’ve heard the Precursors referred to as large shaggy creatures like wooly mammoths or something similar, so I replaced the term ‘cow’ with ‘Precursor’. A stretch but I figured it could possibly trigger some Precursor lore speculation. The Ilwrath in the 2nd joke were originally ‘2 cannibals eating a clown’ so that was an easy fit, and the 3rd joke obviously derives from a ‘your momma’ joke.

On the same subject line, I’ll admit I’m also curious krulle if your spoiler marked material has anything further to do with that, or did my response offer some clarification?
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Draxas » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:34 pm

Wait, you didn't have an actual conversation prompt to ask them to tell you a joke? It should be there (before you know too much, anyway). The actual jokes are similarly bad, really (and one is even a hint as to what's really going on).

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:41 pm

Draxas wrote:Wait, you didn't have an actual conversation prompt to ask them to tell you a joke? It should be there (before you know too much, anyway). The actual jokes are similarly bad, really (and one is even a hint as to what's really going on).
No, no jokes apparent. I’ve revisited the Umgah repeatedly and I think I’ve gone down every conceivable dialogue tree branch. I’ve even gone back and tried asking questions in a different order to see if it would render other results, but it stayed consistent. Here is what I’ve collected so far (in the order in which I first encountered the dialogue):

Umgah – “HELLO. HUMAN. EARTHLING. HAR. HAR. HAR.”

Captain Zelnick – “So Umgah, what have you been up to these past twenty years?”

Umgah – “NOTHING. HAPPEN. LAST. TWENTY. YEARS. VERY. BORING.”

Captain Zelnick – “So how goes your work on that Talking Pet?”

Umgah – “WHAT. TALKING. PET. DO. NOT. UNDERSTAND. REFERENCE.”

Captain Zelnick – “You told us you were modifying a Talking Pet, didn’t you?”

Umgah – “SADLY. IT. DIED. NO. MORE. TALK. ABOUT. IT.”

Captain Zelnick – “If I try to leave, are you going to attack me?”

Umgah – “NO. LEAVE.” (ends communications)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2nd encounter)
Umgah – “HAPPY. GREETINGS. AND. WELCOME. EARTHLING. HUMAN. HAR. HAR. HAR.”
(same)
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(3rd encounter)
Umgah – “WHAT. SO. FUNNY. HUMAN. EARTHLING. YOUR. FACE. FUNNY. THING. HAR. HAR. HAR.”
(same)
------------------------------------
(4th encounter)
Umgah – “WE. FUNNY. UMGAH. SO. FUNNY. HAR. HAR. HAR.”
(same)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5th encounter)
(same)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(6th encounter)
Captain Zelnick – “You know, I just don’t believe you. What are you hiding?”

Umgah – “HUMAN. POSSESSES. FORBIDDEN. KNOWLEDGE. NO. INTERFERENCE. IN. PLAN. CAN. BE. TOLERATED. HUMAN. MUST. BE. TOLERATED.” (Umgah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(6th encounter – alternative)
Captain Zelnick – “Evil blobbies, your craven nature is revealed! Submit!”

Umgah – “IF. COMPREHEND. TRUE. NATURE. MUST. BE. ELIMINATED.” (Umgah attacks)
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(after battling Umgah)
Umgah – “HUMAN. KNOWS. TOO. MUCH. IT. MUST. NOT. ESCAPE.” (Umgah attacks)
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(2nd time after battling Umgah)
Umgah – “HUMAN. EARTHLING. CEASE. MOTION. AND. DE-ENERGIZE. SHIP. SO. WE. CAN. GIVE. GIFT.” (Umgah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3rd time after battling Umgah)
Umgah – “CEASE. HOSTILITIES. WE. HAVE. CHANGED. OUR. MINDS. WE. LIKE. YOU. COME. CLOSER.” (Umgah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4th time after Umgah attacks)
Umgah – “RESISTANCE. IS. USELESS. HUMAN. EARTHLING.” (Umgah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5th time after Umgah attacks)
(same)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I missing something? Could it be the version I’m using? Or… could it because I haven’t gone back to see how they respond at their homeworld? I haven’t gone back there yet since I was still experimenting with the Umgah within the Beta Orionis system, but I know that home planet dialogue is sometimes different.

I still find it interesting that there’s actually supposed to be corny Umgah joke-telling! And this whole time I thought I’d come up with something clever on my own! By the way, since I doubt it’s spoilery (and also because I’m growing more and more curious) what jokes are being told?
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Draxas » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:01 pm

From the quote database:
Umgah humor is renowned across space, so... know any good jokes?!

JOKE. YES. JOKE. HERE. IS. JOKE.
WHEN. IS. A. SLAVE. NOT. A. SLAVE.
ANSWER.
WHEN. HE. IS. A. SLAVE. MASTER.

Uh... that wasn't very funny. Can't you do better?

BETTER. JOKE. YES. BETTER. JOKE. HERE. IT. IS
WHAT. YOU. GET. WHEN. COMBINE. DEUTERIUM. PELLET. TERRAWATT. LASER.
AND. PRIMITIVE. EARTH. LEADER. FROM. ASIAN. STEPPES.
ANSWER.
KHAN. FUSION.

Ugh! That wasn't a very good joke either. I don't think you guys are very funny.

UMGAH. ARE. FUNNY. WE. ARE. UMGAH. WE. ARE FUNNY.
THERE. IS. NO. ALTERNATIVE.
That first one is a pretty loaded hint about what is really happening here, of course.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:22 pm

Wow, those jokes are pretty bad. That Khan one especially needs some work. Do you know what Ricardo Montalban would be saying if he were alive right now? Well, I’m not positive, but I’m pretty sure he’d be saying, “Somebody let me out of here! I’ve been buried alive!” Too soon?

Anyways, it must be my crappy version that those jokes aren’t included, but I think I now understand why there wasn’t any Umgah joke-telling at their homeworld. Speaking of which…

(Meanwhile…)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Captain’s Log – Beta Orionis I (Umgah Homeworld) – Red Alert

We entered orbit, but I was surprised when we weren’t promptly greeted like we usually would’ve been, courtesy of thousands of Drone ships ready to shred us with their antimatter cones. Instead, there weren’t any ships whatsoever, so we hailed the planet surface. Astonishingly, not an Umgah but another creature was on the opposite side of the viewscreen:

It was certainly ugly, looking like the result of some weird teleporter malfunction, whereas a bullfrog and an old man were somehow fused together, and this is what popped out the other side. I immediately recognized it as being a talking pet, or it was probably safe to say that standing before us (or squatting might be a more appropriate term) was a full-fledged Dnyarri. I knew right away this was not good.

It snorted out of its nostril hole as it squirmed its forelegs while its large, squishy head pulsated (which occupied over 50% of its body, by the way) which only accentuated the big, bulging veins on its scalp that seemed like they could pop out at any moment from underneath the sparse follicles of hairs. Then it spoke:

Image

I told him or it that we identified this planet as being the Umgah homeworld, but we asked “Who are you?” As with any good liar, he was sure to mix in a little truth along with the lies, calling itself a “peaceful” creature, and that talking pets were “employed” by the Ur-Quan to serve as translators. Their ship was damaged in combat and forced to crash land in Alpha Pavonis, where he was rescued by an Arilou exploration vessel, but the Arilou couldn’t treat their injuries, so they took it to the Umgah because of their superior bio-engineering skills.

I asked what happened to all of the Umgah, but he reassured me that the Umgah were all just fine and hunky-dory, but they were very busy -- so busy in fact that they designated him to answer the ’Caster for today. I wasn’t buying it, but instead of calling them out for turning the Umgah into zombie-blobs, I wanted to pin him down with diplomacy, so I announced that we had come in peace and we were here to speak with the Umgah leaders about overthrowing the Ur-Quan Hierarchy. He was pleased, and in his redneck sounding tone, commended my efforts and proclaimed that he backed us up 100%, but unfortunately, all the Umgah were still way too busy to talk right now, and we should come by later… much later. Figures. I got better excuses from the Spathi Safe Ones than this fool!

I pointed out that we already knew a little bit about talking pets, but they weren’t supposed to be sentient, but he seemed to be smart enough. That was the tipping point, and the Dnyarri revealed his true nature and own personal plans for vengeance against the Ur-Quan, and even though he had previously been planning on letting us go, instead our curiosity had sealed our doom.

His eyes suddenly lit up bright and his body convulsed and began expanding, and he puckered himself into a tight ball as the flesh bulged like a balloon being inflated, and then he released and exhaled, and as he did, green light flashed emitted from his entire body as he squinted his eyes, and I felt a wave of pulsating energy travel through our ship and fleet, and I was blown back a step or two as the wave passed through the bridge and over my body and I lost my footing, along with the other bridge crew.

In an instant, I could feel the Dnyarri’s psychic powers begin to take hold of my thoughts and will. Then he began uttering in a faint voice that said one phrase once, but it echoed through my brain and grew more and more and started repeating itself louder and faster with each passing moment, “SEEK DEATH AT THE HANDS OF YOUR ENEMY!” over and over again. The psychic compulsion was too much for me to withstand, and my willpower began to give away.

All the sudden, however, from within the confines of the device chamber, the Taalo Shield began to glow with an immense red light, which sent off its own pulse wave which overtook and surpassed the green hue that had up to that point saturated every spot on the bridge. The red beam persisted and pushed the green energy back to towards its origin, the Dnyarri, and all at once there was a bright flash in front of his face and then every point of light, both red and green, were gone.

He exclaimed, “Aieee! I cannot compel you!? Your mind is closed to me -- how can this be?!” as I rose back to my feet. He retorted that he wasn’t through with us yet, and he ordered his Umgah commander, still under the influence of his powers, to send in 10 of their strongest ships to attack!

Yeah… and that was just a few moments ago, so maybe I should’ve spent more time preparing our battle defenses and less time on log entries, but whatever, they’re just dumb Umgah. We’ll blast through these guys… and then I’m going to get some answers!

Here they come! We are going to battle stations! Captain out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:28 pm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Captain’s Log – Dec 17, 2157 - Beta Orionis I (Umgah Homeworld) – Yellow Alert

We defeated the small Umgah fleet, but not before we took damage to the Vindicator. Usually, when dealing with a pair or so the flagship can blast through Drone with ease, due to the incredible power and range of the Hellbore Cannons, which can essentially bypass directly through an Umgah’s antimatter cone, and with the aid of our auto-tracking modules, each volley is sure is to hit their target, assuming it’s in range.

Furthermore, turning the Vindicator into a rotating cannon is a sound strategy against Drones, so instead of moving around and risking collision with a nearby planet (which always seem to pop up on sensors too late and at the most inconvenient times!) it seems better to sit in a spot in space and wait for the Drones to approach, and then blast them when they enter range. Using the Vindicator in this manner basically turns it into a version of a pillbox fortress, and its defenses are difficult to unfurl or surpass.

However, as the battle went on, the Umgah were able to employ a tactic of their own, by utilizing their specialized reverse propulsion engines to quickly shoot their ships backwards at incredible velocities, and then when they were close enough, they’d stop on a… on a… well, on a small round thing that’s really small, which put them at a standstill, but then their threat became more apparent as they moved in closer range with their maneuvering thrusters to try and engulf our vessel with the destructive cone weapon.

Fortunately, since we have so many hellbores equipped (a full frontal spread which deploys 5 projectiles) even when a Drone would enter close proximity, most of the time we either destroyed it on its way (even in zip mode) or a quick blast would partially damage it as we veered away and then we could easily finish it off once we were out of immediate danger, and then halt our momentum as we waited for the next vessel to enter the combat zone.

Unfortunately, there were a few times when the Umgah managed to place themselves into optimal range and then a rotation of their ship sent the cone close enough to graze our hull, but even a few milliseconds within cone contact meant several crew members became casualties wherever the antimatter dissolved the hull. But even though we endured some loss of life of our own, the battle was ours and the Umgah fleet fell to us one-by-one until there were no more. The smoke had settled, and then we returned to the Dnyarri.

The squishy little creature looked around sheepishly and tried to nonchalantly change his little tune from threatening bully to a little brat with a bloody nose who just had his first taste of humble pie.

The despicable thing even had the gall to try to convince us that the injuries it had endured aboard the Dreadnought during the crash had led to his personality change into Hitler toad, but while we were fighting the Umgah he got hit in the head with piece of ceiling and he was now restored to a being of peace and love. The flower froglet even went on further to say that the psychic powers he had were only temporary during his former state of mind, so we could go ahead and remove the Taalo psychic protection device. He soon realized we weren’t going for it. Not a chance.

He begged for us not to kill him and tried to strike a bargain, but in truth, I didn’t really care. I knew I was about to have to go back and redo the Umgah battle, and over and over if necessary; whatever it would take to defeat all 10 Drones without losing any crew, so at the time I could care less about the dumb little Dnyarri. I just wanted to squish it under my foot! No deals, no more talk, just death!

I told it to say its prayers as we prepared to kill the vile monster, but it realized that the Taalo Shield was of a technology alien to us, and even though it functioned to protect us from the Dnyarri’s psychic powers, it wasn’t functioning at full capacity, so he could manipulate us temporarily if we didn’t comply with his desires to bring him along to help it seek revenge against the Ur-Quan.

As hard as I tried, I couldn’t kill the Dnyarri, and it forced me to take him onto the ship, and now the stupid little thing is sitting here next to me, and there’s really nothing I can do about it!… well, except to go back and try again. Captain out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Quasispatial » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:54 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:As hard as I tried, I couldn’t kill the Dnyarri, and it forced me to take him onto the ship, and now the stupid little thing is sitting here next to me, and there’s really nothing I can do about it!… well, except to go back and try again. Captain out.
I'm... not so sure that keeping this particular log available to the "toad" in question is a particularly good idea. It'd only need one look at this, one good burst of psionic energy, and then you're not dealing with a mind-controlling Hitler-toad. You're dealing with a time-travelling, mind-controlling Hitler-toad.

Just something to consider.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Death 999 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:36 pm

About the planet - just head along cardinal directions and you'll minimize your chances of hitting it. Also, the retropropulsion resets their velocity, so if you drift slowly forward that'll help reduce the hazard on your 6.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:59 pm

Death 999 wrote:About the planet - just head along cardinal directions and you'll minimize your chances of hitting it. Also, the retropropulsion resets their velocity, so if you drift slowly forward that'll help reduce the hazard on your 6.
Most of the time, the Umgah show up facing the Vindicator, it which case they’d slowly move forward towards me, making them an easy target. The only time they pose a problem is when they show up facing away or sometimes perpendicular, at which time they’ll usually activate the retro-propulsion, sometimes zipping off screen and emerging on the other side, masking the position of the planet. The AI has shown that it can use the Umgah fairly effectively when it wants to, but it usually doesn’t want to.

I’ve tried for the most part to keep the planet’s location in mind and move north or south whenever possible while avoiding the cone threat, but sometimes I’ll drift off the path when making quick decisions during the heat of battle. To rectify this, once a Drone is destroyed, I’ll reorient myself and relocate the planet whenever possible, and then give my thrusters a few taps while facing the opposite direction to bring the Vindicator back to a standstill, which eventually worked, but there was one long battle in which I did everything perfectly, but then I got whacked by the 8th or 9th rear-faced Umgah zooming at me at full force and actually slammed itself into my ship, which sent me into a planet!
Quasispatial wrote:I'm... not so sure that keeping this particular log available to the "toad" in question is a particularly good idea. It'd only need one look at this, one good burst of psionic energy, and then you're not dealing with a mind-controlling Hitler-toad. You're dealing with a time-travelling, mind-controlling Hitler-toad.

Just something to consider.
That’s a very valid point. I’ve learned over the past few days how dangerous it is keeping this powerful creature onboard, even with our Taalo Shield device present. There have been a few setbacks along the way, and well… just see for yourself:

[Dnyarri’s Quarters]

Dnyarri – “I’m sorry, Captain. I was lost in thought. My door… Locked from outside, a guard posted?”

Captain Zelnick – “Unusual treatment for a Dnyarri?”

Dnyarri – “Excellent. You identified me with your computer system, I imagine.”

Captain Zelnick – “Yeah, plus there was all that information I purchased from the Melnorme, and the tidbits from other aliens, plus there’s the huge long stories told by both Ur-Quans of your past treachery. I’d like those answers now. First, the purpose of your star flight.”

Dnyarri – “A new life, a chance to build a world. Other things I doubt you would understand.”

Captain Zelnick – “Why? Because I’m not a product of Umgah-manipulated bio-engineering which awakened the sentience of a creature with immense psychic powers?”

Dnyarri – “Well, that… and also because you don’t have a lust for revenge like I do. Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior. Mentally, physically. In fact, I am surprised how little improvement there has been in human evolution. Oh, there has been technical advancement, but, how little man himself has changed. Yes, it appears we will do well in your century, Captain. Do you have any other questions?”

Captain Zelnick – “ Thank you. They’ve all been answered.”

(A few moments later…)

[Main Bridge]

Helmsman – “On course, sir. Warp factor two.”

Captain Zelnick – “Maintain.” (intercom buzzes) “Bridge.”

Security Officer [OC] – “Captain, Security here. The Dnyarri’s escaped!”

Captain Zelnick – “Sound security alert.”

Communications Officer – “Security alert, Captain. Communication channels are down, Captain.

(Zelnick heads to the lift, but the doors do not open)

Science Officer – “Turbo elevators inoperative. Jammed, Captain.”

(Zelnick rushes to a panel on the far bulkhead and pushes buttons.)

Captain Zelnick – “Atmospheric controls cut off.”

Science Officer – “Useless. They’re on override in Engineering.”

Captain Zelnick – “Engineering. This is the Bridge.”

[Engineering]

Chief Engineer – “Captain! Ahhhh!

(He gets knocked out)

[Bridge]

Captain Zelnick – “What’s going on down there?”

[Engineering]

Dnyarri – “He’s not able to answer you at the moment, Captain. Your ship is mine. I have shut off the life-support system to your Bridge and jammed up your exit routes. I am willing to negotiate.”

Captain Zelnick – “Flood all decks with neural gas.”

Science Officer – “Impossible. Intruder control systems inoperative. The Dnyarri was very thorough in his study of our tech manuals.”

Captain Zelnick – “New rule! No more handing over technical manuals to Dnyarri! Contact Starbase Twelve.”

Communications Officer – “All channels are totally jammed, Captain.”

Science Officer – “Brilliant. Every contingency anticipated.”

Captain Zelnick – “That’s not helpful.”

[Engineering]

Dnyarri – “Your air should be getting quite thin by now. Do you surrender the Bridge?”

[Bridge]

KIRK Captain Zelnick - “Negative.”

[Engineering]

Dnyarri – “Academic, Captain. Refuse, and every person on the Bridge will suffocate.”

(A little later, with everyone else unconscious, Zelnick makes his last log entry.)

Captain Zelnick – “Stardate 3142.8… whatever that means. They have my ship, discarding their own worthless vessel. Only moments of air left on the Bridge now. Commendations recommended for Lieutenant Commy, Technicians First Class *Dancer* and *Prancer*, Lieutenant Screech and, of course, myself. I take full responsibility. I take full…” (Zelnick passes out)
Last edited by The Troglodyte on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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