p6014 storyline & history ****SPOILERS****

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Chenjesu
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Chenjesu »

Lobsterman wrote:
Chenjesu wrote: The Ur-Quan definitely had help in defeating the Dynarri, and the Taalo definitely was part of that help when they constructed Taalo devices. The Taalo didn't have to fight directly in ship combat, but I imagine they would have delivered Taalo devices throughout the afflicted space. I thought it said in Sa-Matra notes that the Khor-Ah had rebelled first which I was surprised to find, but at this point it's vague enough where there's wiggle room either way.
The Ur-Quan killed the Taalo under mind control by the Dnyarri, so how would they deliver Taalo devices without the Dnyarri noticing? This is pure retconning. The storyline explains how the Ur-Quan defeated the Dnyarri, and whilst it doesn't explicitly state that it was by themselves they also never mention any help from outside sources. The canon explanation for how they accomplished this was by wearing an Excruciator, which caused so immense pain that the by then lazy and complacent Dnyarri couldn't bare to keep their mental grip and the Ur-Quan used this split second of lowered guard to kill their defenseless master. Fun fact: The Ur-Quan who first thought of this method was a green Ur-Quan scientist named Kzer-Za, who injected himself with acid. They later devised the Excruciator.

Once again I urge you to read up on your backstory, I know you posted this here for people to help you with the story, but as it stands right now it's more wrong than right in terms of canon.
It also doesn't help that you give answers "clearing things up" for people like Maloo Oture who is friendly enough to believe you even though you have no idea what you are talking about.
Why would the Taalo devices exist specifically to inhibit the Dynarri's powers if they didn't help? Obviously they had something to do with it at some point in time. I'm not sure about whatever this "canon" explanation is but I try to stick the Sa-Matra notes of the Ur-Quan in the game.
Here's a quote from the Sa-Matra notes http://www.sa-matra.net/quotes/ur-quan/

"When the martyred genius Kzer-Za gave us the secret to defeating the Dnyarri, we destroyed them.
Then we decided that we would never again be slaves.
"
That "secret to defeating the Dynarri" is obviously one of the Taalo devices, there's nothing in the entire SC2 game that resembles anything like a "pain suite". Perhaps the Taalo did not willing do it, perhaps they became experimental subjects of a few free Ur-Quan, but either way they were definitely involved especially considering that they were one of the Sentient Milieu and the Ur-Quan did not specify they had destroyed them. Maybe the Taalo didn't disappear and the Ur-Quan kept them secretly enslaved to use them to fight off the Dynarri.

Then on top of all of that there's another quot from the Sa-Matra of the Khor-Ah http://www.sa-matra.net/quotes/kohr-ah/
"Here we met the six races of the Sentient Milieu
here we met the Taalo... the only species we ever called `friend'.
Our association with the Taalo and the Milieu lasted for three thousand years.
"

And you try to tell me the Taalo weren't involved? Even if they got "killed off" they could have merely left behind Taalo devices to be discovered by the Ur-Quan, or disappeared into another dimension as the Orz had implied leaving the Ur-Quan to think they had wiped them out.
Last edited by Chenjesu on Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Death 999 »

Ahem...
Greenish of the Inevitably Successful at finding relevant quotes Under All Circumstances wrote:The Ur-Quan named Kzer-Za was a Green, a researcher specializing in repairing the mental damage
inflicted by long-term exposure to the Dnyarri's psychic compulsion.
By this point in history, the Dnyarri had grown lax in their dominance
and on occasion accidentally permitted their slaves moments of self-direction.
Kzer-Za was able to use those few scattered minutes to compose a theory.
From its observations, Kzer-Za realized that when a slave died
the Dnyarri `disconnected' from the slave's mind, lest it too be dragged down to death.
Further, the Ur-Quan scientist uncovered the fact that when a slave underwent great pain
the Dnyarri temporarily disconnected -- but that the degree of pain had to be extreme, nearly lethal.
Kzer-Za chose its moment carefully -- it waited until it was near an open transmission unit.
Then, in a short moment of mental freedom, the Ur-Quan injected itself with a dose of acidic poison
sending incredible waves of pain through its long body.
In the few moments before its death, Kzer-Za was able to wrest control of the transmitter
to send word of its discovery across the planet, and into space as well.
Ur-Quan everywhere were hacking at their own bodies with chunks of glass, burning themselves horribly
doing anything that would give them the few seconds of freedom necessary to find the nearest Dnyarri
and crush the bleating creature.
As they gained longer and longer periods of control, the Ur-Quan developed new tools and weapons
to destroy their evil masters. The most gruesome of these devices was the Excruciator
a mechanism which was inserted directly into the brain, and generated a constant stream of agony.
The Dnyarri could not bring themselves to make the necessary mental connection with these tortured Ur-Quan.
They were slaughtered by the thousands.
The Ur-Quan slave revolt was won.
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Chenjesu
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Chenjesu »

Death 999 wrote:Ahem...
Greenish of the Inevitably Successful at finding relevant quotes Under All Circumstances wrote:The Ur-Quan named Kzer-Za was a Green, a researcher specializing in repairing the mental damage
inflicted by long-term exposure to the Dnyarri's psychic compulsion.
By this point in history, the Dnyarri had grown lax in their dominance
and on occasion accidentally permitted their slaves moments of self-direction.
Kzer-Za was able to use those few scattered minutes to compose a theory.
From its observations, Kzer-Za realized that when a slave died
the Dnyarri `disconnected' from the slave's mind, lest it too be dragged down to death.
Further, the Ur-Quan scientist uncovered the fact that when a slave underwent great pain
the Dnyarri temporarily disconnected -- but that the degree of pain had to be extreme, nearly lethal.
Kzer-Za chose its moment carefully -- it waited until it was near an open transmission unit.
Then, in a short moment of mental freedom, the Ur-Quan injected itself with a dose of acidic poison
sending incredible waves of pain through its long body.
In the few moments before its death, Kzer-Za was able to wrest control of the transmitter
to send word of its discovery across the planet, and into space as well.
Ur-Quan everywhere were hacking at their own bodies with chunks of glass, burning themselves horribly
doing anything that would give them the few seconds of freedom necessary to find the nearest Dnyarri
and crush the bleating creature.
As they gained longer and longer periods of control, the Ur-Quan developed new tools and weapons
to destroy their evil masters. The most gruesome of these devices was the Excruciator
a mechanism which was inserted directly into the brain, and generated a constant stream of agony.
The Dnyarri could not bring themselves to make the necessary mental connection with these tortured Ur-Quan.
They were slaughtered by the thousands.
The Ur-Quan slave revolt was won.
And why is this not mentioned as much in SC2? Not the Khor-Ah, Kzer-Ah, Arilou or Dynarri mentioned the pain was only used the defeat teh Dynarri. On top of all of that even Fred and Paul want the Taalo to return
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Mysteries_left ... Control_II
under the section "Are the Taalo still alive?".
Maybe self-inflicted pain could have been used at some point, but it couldn't have been the only thing, they just "eventually" destroyed them, it's not like they would be in a good fighting state if they were damaged to the point where it was almost lethal.
Last edited by Chenjesu on Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by oldlaptop »

Chenjesu wrote: And where is this in SC2? Not the Khor-Ah, Kzer-Ah, Arilou or Dynarri mentioned this self inflicted pain.
That's SC2 dialog (with the Melnorme).
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Chenjesu
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Chenjesu »

oldlaptop wrote:
Chenjesu wrote: And where is this in SC2? Not the Khor-Ah, Kzer-Ah, Arilou or Dynarri mentioned this self inflicted pain.
That's SC2 dialog (with the Melnorme).
Damn, now a whole new way for the Taalo being alive has to be developed. Still, you'd have to think the Taalo devices existed for some purpose. The Dynarri had other races they could control as well.
Last edited by Chenjesu on Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

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The Taalo developed it before being annihilated/escaping/whatever, but were unable to make use of it in time.
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Chenjesu »

oldlaptop wrote:The Taalo developed it before being annihilated/escaping/whatever, but were unable to make use of it in time.
The Khor-Ah mentioned they destroyed the Taalo while under the Dynarri's control, but if they had completed the Taalo device as they were being destroyed why didn't they use it to stop themselves from being destroyed? They couldn't have completed the device if they weren't there...And the Orz didn't teleport into that territory until after the war with the Alliance...
Fred and Paul wanted the Taalo to survive somehow, so this needs to get worked out.
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Maloo Oture »

Chenjesu wrote:
oldlaptop wrote:The Taalo developed it before being annihilated/escaping/whatever, but were unable to make use of it in time.
The Khor-Ah mentioned they destroyed the Taalo while under the Dynarri's control, but if they had completed the Taalo device as they were being destroyed why didn't they use it to stop themselves from being destroyed? They couldn't have completed the device if they weren't there...And the Orz didn't teleport into that territory until after the war with the Alliance...
Fred and Paul wanted the Taalo to survive somehow, so this needs to get worked out.
Didn't the Taalo leave our "playground" and go to where the Orz are from. BEFORE they were all wiped out? They may have completed the Taalo device (by the way, there is only 1 known to exist), but they must have thought it better to retreat to a space that they could never again have to deal with the Dnyarri.

Edit: Here's a link to the uqm wiki page of the Taalo.
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Taalo
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Chenjesu
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Chenjesu »

Maloo Oture wrote:
Chenjesu wrote:
oldlaptop wrote:The Taalo developed it before being annihilated/escaping/whatever, but were unable to make use of it in time.
The Khor-Ah mentioned they destroyed the Taalo while under the Dynarri's control, but if they had completed the Taalo device as they were being destroyed why didn't they use it to stop themselves from being destroyed? They couldn't have completed the device if they weren't there...And the Orz didn't teleport into that territory until after the war with the Alliance...
Fred and Paul wanted the Taalo to survive somehow, so this needs to get worked out.
Didn't the Taalo leave our "playground" and go to where the Orz are from. BEFORE they were all wiped out? They may have completed the Taalo device (by the way, there is only 1 known to exist), but they must have thought it better to retreat to a space that they could never again have to deal with the Dnyarri.

Edit: Here's a link to the uqm wiki page of the Taalo.
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Taalo
Yeah that's what I was thinking, but they could at least use the first Taalo device to defend themselves to bide time to construct other Taalo devices, but since the Khor-Ah had thought they killed them off, wouldn't the Khor-Ah have noticed some dimensional fatigue portal? And if they didn't, does that mean the Dynarri's mind control caused memory loss, or that their subjects can't remember everything while being controlled?
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Re: New SC3 Storyline and SC2 History ****SPOILERS****

Post by Maloo Oture »

Yeah that's what I was thinking, but they could at least use the first Taalo device to defend themselves to bide time to construct other Taalo devices, but since the Khor-Ah had thought they killed them off, wouldn't the Khor-Ah have noticed some dimensional fatigue portal? And if they didn't, does that mean the Dynarri's mind control caused memory loss, or that their subjects can't remember everything while being controlled?
I dunno. It took us a long time to really consider Hitler as being dead...
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