Looking for ship ideas

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Dabir
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by Dabir »

Shiver wrote:The Orz Nemesis for instance is shaped like a fish, but does not particularly convey the Orz's weirdness. What does a rotating mass driver and jetpack commandos have to do with a Lovecraftian monster from another universe?
Well, no other ship has a non-fixed firing direction. The fact that the gun rotates is pretty weird, and it means if you're in range you're always at risk (if you can see them, they can get you). Also, the commandos break into ships and kill everyone. Ain't no other species gonna do that. Sounds like an invasion of Lovecraftian horrors to me.
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Death 999
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by Death 999 »

Cedric6014 wrote:SC2 introduced too many new fast ships (Pkunk, Utwig, Orz, Slylandro, Thraddash, Melnorme, Utwig, Supox, Chmmr). I think we may need to redress the balance and introduce a bunch of slow plodders.
I am not used to thinking of Utwig and Chmmr as fast ships. They seem more medium. It's the really slow end like Cruiser, Umgah, and VUX that are missing from the new ships. Kohr-Ah could have stood being a bit slower, for instance. It would have fit the ship, and not made it bad (that's for sure).
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Shiver
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by Shiver »

Cedric6014 wrote:BTW, I just replayed P6014 demo, and BOY the Lurg is tough to beat. Maybe a little too tough? Those five prawns chewed right through what little ships I could buy with 6,000 credits.

I think we may need to make it more catchable. I couldnt ge near the damn thing, even with a Chmmr tractor beam.
Did you play with the most recent internal build or an actual demo? The most recent Lurg Prawn hits fairly hard, but its AI is very inaccurate. It probably doesn't help that I've been able to cut down 5 Lurg in every iteration of the ship I've released. Lurg should be vulnerable to Chmmr, Yehat and the Explorer although none of these are likely to beat 5 Lurg alone. Orz can drop at least one Lurg with simple marine spam as the marines have enough hitpoints for many of them to make it through Lurg's defense.

Dabir wrote:Well, no other ship has a non-fixed firing direction. The fact that the gun rotates is pretty weird, and it means if you're in range you're always at risk (if you can see them, they can get you). Also, the commandos break into ships and kill everyone. Ain't no other species gonna do that. Sounds like an invasion of Lovecraftian horrors to me.
It sounds more 'Delta Force' than 'Cthulu' to me.
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by TSC »

How about this idea then?

Small ship, fast enough to elude a Chmmr tractor beam. Has a weapon that is long range, does low damage, but the bullet it shoots has very high HP (So it can shoot through a Chmmr Satellite Field)

I think SC2 can DEFINITELY use a ship like that. Orz and Supox can do this, but they can only BARELY do this. A ship that's weaker then either of the Blade or the Nemesis overall but that can CONSISTENTLY shoot through a Chmmr shield (Even if it doesn't do that much damage doing so) might be nice to have.

Which also might fit the desired goal of a low tier ship that can kill a high tiered one. (Although then again Druuge could still do this role better I suppose, but maybe this is a cheaper smaller alternative that has more staying power because it doesn't cannibalize itself?)

Maybe if it's to weak add a versatile secondary weapon. (Ideally one that sets it apart further from the Druuge. Like maybe being able to deploy forcefields that bounce enemy ships around at high speeds if they hit them. And that like stationary Kohr-Ah shurikens home very slowly towards an approaching ship.) It might be a good design idea to start with a very weak ship and just beef it up a bit. Then you can stop beefing when it's sufficiently powerful.


I think though it's very important that a ship that trashes the Androsynth consistently is made, as well as maybe one that's a nightmare for the Mmrnmhrm Speed form. (Actually another nice Pkunk counter is something I'd like very much too.)

Umgah and Ilwrath could use more prey (or be lower priced maybe?)


Anyway far as I'm concerned if you like any of my idea's do whatever you want with them. If you think it works better differently but you get inspiration from it anyway, just do what you want.

If you don't want to use anything fine too. I'm just throwing something out there. I hope this project won't be another TimeWarp and be finished. And this is my way of at least saying I do support what you're doing.

Now back when TimeWarp was developed I talked to some of the people working on it. But it never quite came beyond an updated Melee far as I know, so I will admit, I'm skeptical. I've seen it before and it looked promising then too, but it didn't happen.

But hey, I like what I saw in the demo, so that's good! And I do think fan-mods ARE the way to go for SC2's future. I don't think there will ever be an OFFICIAL sequel I'm afraid. And I'm not even sure if I'd want it anymore. Because so much time has passed that I think nowadays I'd rather leave the mysteries mysteries and open for fans to explore, instead of being answered canonically.

I mean... for example, canonically the Orz are *THEM*, because Ford and Reiche said so. But if no one ever knew what Ford and Reiche meant with the Orz and there was just SC2, the Orz could be anything you'd want them to be. Then they could NOT be *THEM*, and I like it more to decide for myself at this point. I mean... would it really be that exiting to play a SC2 sequel where you already know that the Orz are gonna be the true villains? I'd rather not myself. I'd rather be surprised. And if *I* where to write a sequel myself I'd do one which'd tie instead into the Kohr-Ah and Milieu storylines. (And not do all that much with the Orz or Androsynth, because people EXPECT there to be something do with the Orz and Androsynth. And well I'd rather do something people WOULDN'T expect myself if it was MY call.)

(Now I WOULD be happy to see Ford and Reiche do a game LIKE SC2 again though, but just a new game. That I WOULD love.)

But I think I'd like SC2 to be handled by the fans from here on out myself. And I'd be happy to see your interpretation and I hope you can complete it.
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oldlaptop
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by oldlaptop »

TSC wrote: I think SC2 can DEFINITELY use a ship like that. Orz and Supox can do this, but they can only BARELY do this. A ship that's weaker then either of the Blade or the Nemesis overall but that can CONSISTENTLY shoot through a Chmmr shield (Even if it doesn't do that much damage doing so) might be nice to have.
Chmmr is not in need of counters, Utwig kills it for sure, Druuge less reliably, and Shofixti can potentially take out all satellites for 5pt. Kohr-Ah is the 30pt ship that needs a soft counter.
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TSC
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by TSC »

oldlaptop wrote:
TSC wrote: I think SC2 can DEFINITELY use a ship like that. Orz and Supox can do this, but they can only BARELY do this. A ship that's weaker then either of the Blade or the Nemesis overall but that can CONSISTENTLY shoot through a Chmmr shield (Even if it doesn't do that much damage doing so) might be nice to have.
Chmmr is not in need of counters, Utwig kills it for sure, Druuge less reliably, and Shofixti can potentially take out all satellites for 5pt. Kohr-Ah is the 30pt ship that needs a soft counter.

Actually you got kind of a point there. Plus I don't find them that hard to destroy with Yehat either. And Melnorme counters decently as well.


Something that shoots through the FRIED then?

I'm not sure how one would make a real counter to the Kohr-Ah, it's extremely well rounded. Whatever weaknesses it has are covered by something else it does.

There is the Spathi Eluder of course. But anything that'd counter a Kohr-Ah would need a decently long range and a fair amount of crew.
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oldlaptop
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by oldlaptop »

TSC wrote: I'm not sure how one would make a real counter to the Kohr-Ah, it's extremely well rounded. Whatever weaknesses it has are covered by something else it does.

There is the Spathi Eluder of course. But anything that'd counter a Kohr-Ah would need a decently long range and a fair amount of crew.
Spathi unfortunately does not count. It seems as though it will be absent from the campaign, and no human being is stupid enough to chase it.

Something that can stay at a long range and outgun it would work. Chenjesu is close to that, but is far too clumsy and big of a target, between two humans who know what they're doing Chenjesu loses just about every time. Something like SC3's Herald Eradicator might work (cloaking, small profile, long range). *ducks rotten vegetables*
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Nuclear
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by Nuclear »

I actually consider Chenjesu a huge counter to Kohr-ah, taking into consideration the "clumsy" controls. You don't actually have to run away from a Kohr-ah, but you can chase it head on if you want. Your crystal shards can go right through multiple shurikens, so they act as something of a shield against blades being launched in your direction. Once you get close, you can burst the Kohr-ah down with several crystals much faster then it can damage you with the FRIED {which is much more effective against incoming weapons then ships anyway}. You can even use DOGIs if you want, since even if the Kohr'ah destroys them with FRIED, it still wasted energy anyway.
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Death 999
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by Death 999 »

Much more wasted energy for the Chenjesu than for the Kohr-Ah, though.

A good counter for Kohr-Ah could have a weapon that passes through other weapons without taking damage. Then the Kohr-Ah couldn't defend themselves effectively.

Or it could have an active shield a bit like the PDL that just wipes out all enemy fire within the ring (and fires exactly when you press the button, not automatically). Make it have a long recharge time but not be too expensive, and it'd be great on a fast ship for clearing a defensive minefield and/or last-moment FRIED.

It would not affect things that are not weapons, like enemy vessels or asteroids. For balance, it shouldn't take out fighters either, and given that, it shouldn't take out marines.
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Gekko
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Re: Looking for ship ideas

Post by Gekko »

On Chenjesu vs Kohr-Ah
This, I'd dare to claim, is one the harder matches to predict properly. Chenjesu has a huge firepower if it manages to land direct hits, whereas the Kohr-Ah gets an instant kill if the ships do get close and a double FRIED happens. They both can stand long if they are in range, but Chenjesu gains more advantage from this as it isn't in the range of FRIED. It's a game of accuracy where Chenjesu can fire approximately to the correct direction and land hits with the shrapnel, while Kohr-Ah must catch Chenjesu in a trap of sorts as landing direct hits is somewhat difficult to a moving target at the other side of the screen.

The initial moments are important. If the ships spawn close, Kohr-Ah wins unless Chenjesu can land a direct hit barrage right away. Chenjesu is slower, and Kohr-Ah will have little trouble catching up and eating the poor turtle as breakfast. If the ships land far away, Chenjesu has a decent chance of victory considering the fact that the is a frigging Kohr-Ah against it. The moment the ships land, Kohr-Ah will be wanting to find the planet. After the planet has been located Chenjesu must do everything it can do remain in a position where it can quickly escape from the trajectory of a gravity whipping Kohr-Ah, while Kohr-Ah must work quickly to achieve this. Chenjesu turns and accelerates slower than Kohr-Ah, so unless Chenjesu gets hits in, eventually the close ranged fighting will occur.

I'd say it's around 80% chance of victory for Kohr-Ah, both ships at full crew. This is for vanilla though, Balance Mod might be a bit different, and favours Chenjesu slightly more.
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