GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

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orz_tw
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by orz_tw »

As a window, it will not go higher than your desktop resolution. Fullscreen, it will go up to whatever your monitor and video card allow.

If it's running faster that might be due to a change in the resolution or color depth. Another possibility is that your old version might have been a debugging version of the executable... occasionally I accidentally send one those out, they tend to be much slower than regular versions.
hansolo0
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by hansolo0 »

Interesting... I should let players know I had a great deal of luck with the claircontlar pinacle. It's special is to teleport to a buoy that it deploys, and that is very useful in this game! Decent speed and turning radius and firepower! It doesn't need much upgrades to get the thrust and turn at very good levels (one maybe each). Main drawback is it's firepower range and dynamo is poor, but dynamo can be upgraded at least. I almost 'won' with it on my first try!
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Lukipela
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by Lukipela »

orz_tw wrote:Anyway, I don't think the 4/25/11 has anything significant new. The 4/02/11 version did do several things... it made the captain panel adjust itself when you bought crewpods & batteries, it added a new upgrade for mycons, and it replaced / updated a lot of documentation.
That's interesting, I shall have to check it out. Would you object to me putting an executable on PNF?
hansolo0
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by hansolo0 »

Orz would it be hard for you to set Gob up so you can select which ship you want to start? Maybe just have the base screen pop up as soon as it runs with ship selection, just as when you enter the rainbow rift. Possibly have it as an option to do that or to be able to select if you want ship choice to occur at startup?? I only ask because I like trying the earthling cruiser and like its upgrades; but I usually get killed shortly after I get it because I don't have enough $$ to upgrade enough , mainly on thrusters , etc. If I do get enough upgrades , and it's almost mandatory for the security satellites, the game is at a point where it is too hard and I get killed. Along these lines I was wondering perhaps about a 'difficulty level' where you could click this setting and it would reduce say the need for 'sensors' and costs of upgrading would be less, example, earthling thrusters. Right now it's too hard to play as earthling, I think.

I had an experience using the suppox late in the game where I got 'blitzed' by exceedingly long waves of ur-quan fighters and syreen constantly barraging me. I thought it was interesting and wondered if it was intentional or what?

Thanks!

Look forward to the next update!
liamiak
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by liamiak »

It is great to see gob is still alive - I had great fun with this years ago and thought it would be fun to take it for another spin. I just downloaded the latest version, and found my strafing skills had sadly atrophied, but I am looking forward to getting them back.

I used to have a version of this that would compile, but I no longer have that computer, and am having a devilish time finding the right libraries. Does anyone happen to have a good link to the correctish versions?

In the meantime, wish me luck as I again say thanks; I have about 1,000 thraddish to kill.

[edit now that I have been playing a bit]
got the following error about 4617 seconds into the game:

Possible Infinite Loop:

Stack Trace:
melee\manim.cpp : 35
called from melee\mframe.cpp : 1111
called from melee\mframe.cpp : 1077
called from melee\mgame.cpp : 488
called from games\ggob.cpp : 364
called from melee\mgame.cpp : 536
called from scp.cpp : 407
called from scp.cpp : 636
called from scp.cpp : 629

ignored it, got it twice more, and after that it stopped coming up but the game started freezing for 10ish seconds every couple of minutes.

As other impressions (from playing/winning with supox):

I do not remember the harder versions of various folks. They make the game more interesting.

I have to make mental note to turn sticky key detection off - that popup is bad when in the middle of a firefight.

The yehat are annoying to kill for a long time. With enough Advanced External Defense Systems and field repair systems it seems easier just to run up on them and let them get lasered to death. Until then, they tend to last a long time. Perhaps I should actually but some supox blades... I think they might help there.

Does anyone else often end up with a bunch of Druuge in a cluster that is untouchable (or even approacable) until late game? I had 7 or 8 on top of each other, which was terrifying when a Chmmr appeared in the middle of them. On the other hand, finally clearing the clump is a great feeling.
hansolo0
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by hansolo0 »

I have that problem with the druuge as well. Earthilings work good on them but are hard to upgrade (thrusters, etc) and vulnerable to the chmmr (better have advance satelites). You can also chase one of them down with suppox and get them to eat up their energy and then just blast them, but it's difficult if their are more than a 2 druuge, shooting at ya....

As for the yehat, if you still have the suppox you can beat them if you stay out of range of it's blast and just keep shooting at it while both of you are drifting in the same direction, it toward you as you are drifting away from it at the same speed. It's helpful to have upgraded dynamo a time or two and glob former, which makes your blasts more powerful. This also works on the chmmr, although you have to be facing it and backward thrusting away while shooting it with glob former/dynamo upgrades.
liamiak
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by liamiak »

Hansolo: yeah, the yehat are not hard per se with the suppox, but what I find a lot is every time I start trying to blast one, some other faster ship flys up and I have to deal with it. I then get back to the yehat, and someone else comes along. This often goes on until I need to heal, and then I run away to a star base. At that point I am annoyed with them, so I fly off in another direction so as not to have to deal with them for a bit. That might be actually counterproductive, though.

The glob former point is interesting... I usually get 5 or so dynamos (or sometimes the dynamo artifact) before I even get a glob former - it annoys me more to have to think about shooting than to just shoot all the time and focus on dodging right. There is probably a sign of where I could improve my play more than anything, but everything else goes down pretty easily without any glob formers. I will have to experiment some more. Thanks for the tip!

[edit after some time playing with earthlings]
It is interesting how thrusters work on larger ships... earthlings are unwieldy, no matter what I do. That said, with a few warhead upgrades they are very hard for most enemy ships (lk and yehat aside) to approach. From playing supox I though the lk never used their phasing, but I guess they just don't think it would help against the supox gun. I am glad neither of them is too fast, and the AEDS has slighly superior range to both. The strategic view from earthlings (from lots of sensor systems - I eventually maxxed them) is quite a different game. Rainbow rifts are easier to come by with the map more zoomed out, and the game generally has a different feel. Still lots of fun, though.

A couple bugs I observed:

There are two of the same name for the earthling laser upgrades (I think they were both range). I suspect one is supposed to be power.

Does anyone else see areas popping up that your (A)EDs all shot at where there does not appear to be anything after 45-60 minutes into the game? I regularly see these, and have not yet been able to tell what causes them.
orz_tw
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by orz_tw »

hansolo0:
Starting with arbitrary ships sounds an awful lot like a cheat to me. I have noticed that it's very hard to switch ships without a lucky rainbow rift in the very early game... I improved that situation slightly a while ago by allowing the purchase of upgrades immediately after changing ship types at the rainbow rift (previously you had to survive with zero upgrades until you could reach a starbase). Possibly it needs something more, like a lower purchase price for buyable ships and/or a wider variety of buyable ships at each starbase. I've also been considering spawning a rainbow rift at predetermined coordinates (ie the same in every game) with a stationary guard ship on it, something that you wouldn't normally encounter in early-game.

Specific combinations of opponents that spawn or attack together are not intentional. The general mix of opponents is intentional, as is the the fact that some (but not all) of the uber variants of the green Urquans that only appear in late-game have stronger, faster, and more numerous fighters.

I've never tried claircontlar, I'd expect it to be reasonably effective but lack a good upgrade path.

liamak:
I think Allegro (4.2 or thereabouts) alone is enough to build TW, allegro.cc offers precompiled downloads for some versions. The library needed for music in TW has gone the way of the dodo, I can't even figure out how to convert TWs music in to a modern format. If you don't want to link with wsock32.lib or whatever you might need to edit net_tcp.h and uncomment NETWORK_NONE at top.

The stacktrace looks like Animation::calculate(). It's not clear how such an error could have been generated by that code. I've tweaked it slightly in hopes of fixing it but I'm not optimistic.

The harder versions of each enemy were added maybe a year or two ago.
Yehats have the same issue as most AI controlled ships with shields - obnoxiously good timing. The simplest solution is to have a laser based weapon since the AIs can't figure those out. The next simplest solution is to have your gun actually touching them when you fire, so that they don't have time to react. The next simplest is to keep a steady stream of fire on them for longer than they can keep their shields up. Buying supox blades may actually make that harder, as it will likely cause the AI to shield when your ship itself comes near them.
I sometimes get clusters of 2-4 Druuge, but not more than that. I make eliminating Druuge a priority when possible, since their combination of high damage, long range, and high bullet velocity can make forgetting about them deadly. My biggest problem with Druuge is that it's often impossible to close with them as approaching them too closely causes them to fire rapidly, accelerating them away from me. That, and on some monitors at some times of day they're invisible to my eyes. And every once in a while they manage to snipe me to death. Note that a 2 to 4 regular external defense systems can take out Druuge shots, at least if you're moving away from the Druuge at the time and there's only one Druuge.

I generally buy 1 dynamo before my first glob former, then like 5 before my 2nd, and don't buy a third until very late game, by which time I'm probably not a supox anymore anyway.
I think the Lk AI is set to only thing things that do a certain minimum amount of damage are worth shielding for, and it doesn't really understand multiple threats in close proximity like the supox bullets.
Note that supox has a shorter sensor range for the same number of upgrades than any other ship. All other ships are equal in that regard.
I believe the duplicate upgrade name issue was fixed for the next version.
I have seen invisible, non-meaningful targets that get pointlessly attacked by external defense systems. Either some object is ending up only mostly dead or some logic is creating dummy objects (AIs and a few bits and pieces do that kind of thing) and accidentally inserting them in to the game. I haven't figured out what generates them yet.
liamiak
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by liamiak »

orw_tw: Thanks for the heads up on the precompiled allegro - now I can play around with this again. Of course, playing compiler games (and misc life details) stopped me from actually playing last night.

I can feel the allure of han_solo's thought about starting with a choosen ship. I can also see where this would radically change the starting difficulty of the game. It seems that the current means makes us miss out some on the development of other ships. When I start a new game, I get a lot of pleasure out of the initial survival. Each upgrade has a powerful effect on gameplay and I find myself planning and anticipating each one. When/if I find the rainbow rift, if I have not been saving (and thus get a ship with no/minimal improvements), I get slaughtered. If I save for it first, then that means that significant time has passed in the game before I am looking at starting a new ship. More importantly from a (personal) fun point of view, it means I skip the stage where every upgrade matters with all non-supox ships.

A possible potential compromise could be either to start the game with an already advanced timer based on the ship (to increase starting difficulty to roughtly match). This could be based on the ship point value for a very rough number, or tweaked as needed for individual ships. Another option would be to adjust the timer when a new ship was chosen (or if a new ship was chosen before time X, or if chosen the first time the rainbow rift was used, or if a new ship was choosen with less than X starbucks).
Vee-R
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Re: GOB is still being updated (sorta starcon meets nethack)

Post by Vee-R »

It's absolutely awesome that this is still being updated (or was until last month anyway)... I was stuck with a very old version until I found this thread and the sourceforge link. Keep it up man!

Personally I think the Supox should remain the only starting ship. I get the feeling it would be impossible to balance the game otherwise, and the fact that it's tough to switch ships gives it a sense of achievement. It's hard to survive post-rainbow rift if you don't plan ahead, but it's actually a lot easier than it used to be, since you can actually upgrade right at the rainbow rift - no more trying to scramble for a starbase in a bare-bones state and hoping you don't get creamed by a couple of wimpy Torches.

By the way - I'm using the latest version off Sourceforge, and the captain panel does adjust itself for crew when I upgrade - but not for batteries. Am I missing something?

Now if you'll excuse me, there's a bunch of annoying Maulers begging to eat flaming death, so I'm off on another "wild Druuge chase"...
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