Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

This is the place to talk about all things Star Control.

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Lukipela
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Lukipela »

But as always with near translations, it might be something completely different as well. I always envisioned the Arilou's viewing "time" much like we view "space", just another coordinate to move around on, though with similar restrictions to the three others depending on the situational context.

The concept of Arilou being our future is interesting, though it sort of reminds me of the SC3 "We need human DNA to repair ours" idea. It does raise the big question of what they need though. Can't be as simple as DNA, because there are races out there who can fix that in the blink of an eye. Can't be our location from a spatial point of view, because the Arilou can travel any way they wish to so that shouldn't matter. Shouldn't be connected to our timeline, because they can probably move in it and get what they need anywhen. So what's left? What is it that they know?
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by TSC »

Lukipela wrote:But as always with near translations, it might be something completely different as well. I always envisioned the Arilou's viewing "time" much like we view "space", just another coordinate to move around on, though with similar restrictions to the three others depending on the situational context.

The concept of Arilou being our future is interesting, though it sort of reminds me of the SC3 "We need human DNA to repair ours" idea. It does raise the big question of what they need though. Can't be as simple as DNA, because there are races out there who can fix that in the blink of an eye. Can't be our location from a spatial point of view, because the Arilou can travel any way they wish to so that shouldn't matter. Shouldn't be connected to our timeline, because they can probably move in it and get what they need anywhen. So what's left? What is it that they know?

I don't think it'd be the same as SC3. They don't need DNA, they just need humanity to survive. So they pop up in times of crisis (Ur-Quan arrival) to keep an eye on humanity, so that their ancestors don't go extinct. They don't want anything, just human survival. (And are just as happy to get this at the cost of human wellbeing mind you! Just look at how they liked the slaveshield idea. It doesn't matter to them if their ancestors are miserable, because if they are alive and breeding, that's all THEY need, and if they are miserable but SAFE, that's preferable to happy but at risk.)

SC3 was very different, they made the Arilou unconnected to humanity, save by them wanting to harvest DNA. That's not similar to the Arilou being humans from the future. (Which is also a more consistent idea with the Grey Alien mythos they are based on, since one of the popular ideas was that they where future humans.)
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Steve-O »

Lukipela wrote:Can't be as simple as DNA, because there are races out there who can fix that in the blink of an eye. Can't be our location from a spatial point of view, because the Arilou can travel any way they wish to so that shouldn't matter. Shouldn't be connected to our timeline, because they can probably move in it and get what they need anywhen. So what's left? What is it that they know?
Well the Arilou do mention at one point that much of their work in altering humans has to do with changing our *smell* to keep us hidden (which sounds like a fairly direct link to the Orz and IDF exploration in general.) My personal theory is that the Arilou are trying to create in humans a race which can somehow help them overcome some kind of obstacle in some parallel dimension. Something we're not ready for yet, hence their refusal to tell us anything about it (since knowing will apparently leave us open to retaliation.) Whether that "obstacle" is the Orz entity or something else entirely is anyone's guess. I also think it's a fair bet that esper ratings and psychic abilities tie into this (which helps to explain how simply knowing something can make you visible to an enemy who couldn't see you while you were ignorant.)

That, combined with the statistically impossible similarities between human and syreen, provides a fairly good basis for the idea that our similarities with that race (and our apparent ability to cross-breed) is not simply a one in a million random chance. SOMETHING influenced us (and probably the Syreen too) to make us similar, and the Arilou are a prime suspect for that since they openly admit to having messed with our genetic code, at least. And yet, the Syreen with their highly advanced psychic powers are apparently useless to the Arilou for whatever purposes they have in mind. Perhaps there's an upper limit of how much psychic potential they need us to have, and the Syreen have exceeded that limit.

And just because they're preparing us for this task doesn't mean we'll like it when we're ready. (The Arilou have always been a little sketchy themselves, after all.) Whether we'd be willing allies in overcoming this "obstacle" or cannon fodder is yet to be seen.

I do agree, however, that the Arilou most likely have the ability to travel through time, though they may or may not have full control over when and where they go. (They seem to enjoy exploring just for its own sake so this may not be a bad thing to them.) HyperSpace is functionally a parallel dimension where time and space are different enough to help us move from one star to another in TrueSpace in reasonable timeframes. QuasiSpace seems to have an even more protracted time-scale. And the Arilou have access to other dimension besides. Perhaps one of those effectively has time moving the other direction, so if a ships stays there long enough, it comes back to TrueSpace earlier than it left.

Edit: Another thought has just occurred to me. When I first made contact with the Arilou in the play-through I'm currently doing, they expressed a concern about the Syreen situation with Syra and suggested I should look into that more. They mentioned this would have a great impact on my future "and my heart." That suggests they can at least see the future, if not travel there, but more importantly, it suggests that they have a vested interest in seeing the Captain and Talana get together. Perhaps they want humans and syreen to crossbreed? Perhaps they aren't as disinterested in the syreen as they appear to be, after all.
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Lukipela »

Steve-O, that post of your conjured up an interesting idea in my brain. You were talking about the Arilou hiding us, coaching us, preparing to use us for some special purpose that we may or may not like... to help them overcome an obstacle of some sort.

I'm thinking if something is bothering the Arilou, it's either some form of universal design, or some other entity. Translated into our terms, that's a big obstacle as you say, or an enemy.

How do we remove big obstacles? The same way we remove enemies. By blowing them up, projecting enough destructive power at them to remove/destroy them. But not every enemy is defenceless. Some can strike back, destroying you as you tear them apart. And if your enemy is capable of the same? Then you need a way of striking first. A way of delivering your payload undetected, a way of killing them before they even realise what you're doing.

And what better way to do that than with something they can't see, sense, or... *smell*?

Are we a stealth delivery system for a final solution against an unseen enemy? Or are we both delivery system and warhead in once, our cloak not only hiding us but our destructive potential as well, even from ourselves?

Universal design or unseen enemy, we just might the equivalent of a nuclear arsenal hidden in the sandy desert of Truespace.
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Steve-O »

Lukipela wrote: How do we remove big obstacles? The same way we remove enemies. By blowing them up, projecting enough destructive power at them to remove/destroy them. But not every enemy is defenceless. Some can strike back, destroying you as you tear them apart. And if your enemy is capable of the same? Then you need a way of striking first. A way of delivering your payload undetected, a way of killing them before they even realise what you're doing.
That's a very astute point. And how, pray tell, does one prepare a preemptive strike against an enemy that can tell when you're THINKING about it? (Or should I say "THEM?")

By using beings who don't know the enemy exists to prepare and/or deliver it. I think you're right on the money with that idea.
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Lukipela »

If by "right on the money" you mean "I will sue TFB if they use that storyline without paying me royalties" then yes, I agree.

Jokes aside, it is a pretty chilling and interesting concept. A whole new level stealth, and then some sort of capacity for destruction of that unknown enemy.

How did we get here from reproduction in the SC universe anyway?
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Steve-O »

Lukipela wrote: If by "right on the money" you mean "I will sue TFB if they use that storyline without paying me royalties" then yes, I agree.
LOL.
Lukipela wrote: How did we get here from reproduction in the SC universe anyway?
Early in the thread someone mentioned that it was highly unlikely that humans and syreen would be able to cross-breed, which led to a tangential discussion about the Arliou and what they may or may not have had to do with the evolution of one or both our species. And that led to a second tangent about this. =)

While we're off the topic, though (see what I did there?) I had a discussion with the Orz last night where they talked about how the Dnyarri had once *chased* the Taalo out of *heavy space* and that the Dnyarri were now *asleep.* They said they looked forward to *chasing* the Dnyarri while they *slept.* Then they went on to say something that related us to the Dnyarri, but said we "weren't ready" or something. I forget the exact dialogue. The point is, I was left with the impression that the Orz like to *chase* (ie: exterminate/consume/whatever) races with psychic potential. The Dnyarri are apparently a very tasty treat right now, in their sub-sentient but still-psychic "talking pet" mode, whereas we aren't, but might be some day. Maybe creatures who exhibit psychic ability are somehow projecting themselves into Orz space (without necessarily realizing it) and that's what gives them their ability.

I know the Androsynth made themselves a target by "learning" too much about extradimensional space, but were the Androsynth known for much in the way of psychic ability? If not, it might be evidence that they were "taken" without being *chased.*
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Alvarin »

Disregarding mostly everything written in the topic, but with adherance to the topic, I think that Tanaka's name was derived from oriental folklore's Tanuki. Any thoughts on that?
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Death 999
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Death 999 »

Tanuki is the common name for a totally real raccoon-dog-ish animal.

Tanaka is the fourth most common Japanese family name.
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Re: Sexes, reproduction and Star Control!

Post by Alvarin »

Yes, I know about Tanuki being real animal. I was pointing to it's depictions in Japanese folklore and Tanaka's role in the game.
Didn't know about it's popularity, though.
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