Your Opinion of the Androsynth

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Lukipela
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by Lukipela »

TSC wrote:First of all, I find it a little irking that they are called Android Synthetics, when they are meant to be CLONES.
Am I just confused or is this not right? I thought Androsynth meant "Fake Men" and was brought into use by Homo Deus. At least the Ultronomicon doesn't mention the word Android anywhere, where did you see it?

Interesting take on having synthetic bodies, a bit Blade Runnerisque i guess, except with real brains. Backstory does mention that the Androsynth didn't come into existence as slaves, they had some rights that were limited as time passed.

One thing is spot on with how I think about them, and that's that they just wanted to be left alone. I don't think they wanted to go to war, but they had no choice.
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by Nuclear »

Lukipela wrote:One thing is spot on with how I think about them, and that's that they just wanted to be left alone. I don't think they wanted to go to war, but they had no choice.
As any 4X player knows, the Androsynth were attempting to take a pacifistic, research based path to galactic domination. And then the Ur-Quan came along and ruined it...
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by TSC »

Lukipela wrote:
TSC wrote:First of all, I find it a little irking that they are called Android Synthetics, when they are meant to be CLONES.
Am I just confused or is this not right? I thought Androsynth meant "Fake Men" and was brought into use by Homo Deus. At least the Ultronomicon doesn't mention the word Android anywhere, where did you see it?

Interesting take on having synthetic bodies, a bit Blade Runnerisque i guess, except with real brains. Backstory does mention that the Androsynth didn't come into existence as slaves, they had some rights that were limited as time passed.

One thing is spot on with how I think about them, and that's that they just wanted to be left alone. I don't think they wanted to go to war, but they had no choice.

I think it might have been from SC1 or a manual? If I google it I do find some pages that say it's short for android synthetic. Maybe that's all wrong?

I dunno, I personally find it easier to believe that the more INhuman the androsynth are, the
easier it is to see that they would be mistreated. Whereas the more human they are the weirder I find it. (I mean even if they made cloned people that where otherwise fully human, I just find it a bit odd that society would readopt slavery. Whereas if the Androsynth are synthoids with human brains they might be seen more as a product. Sure it has a human brain, but that was grown for it and programmed.) But that's just me, it might have not been the intend with them.

Plus making a supersmart human brain for your synthoids might make sense too. You can take advantage of the brains natural abilities, rather then having to write ridiculously complex A.I.'s. You could then connect the brain to some extra mechanical processing hardware too. Since it'd need to be connected to a synthetic body anyway. And the cloning would be to grow the perfect human brain. An Einstein in every intellectual endeavour.

As for them wanting to be left alone, that's possible. Since the Spathi feared them least they where either not especially hostile, or if they where they concealed it. But it's not necessarily so that they where nice. And that if you weren't human and there wasn't a war that they'd been friendly per se. (Maybe aloofly formal?)

Also if they used to have rights that where taken away maybe Hsien Ho, their creator was actually a friendly transhumanist sort of guy who wanted the Androsynth to help humanity progress. But it didn't happen like that. (Maybe the people he worked for wanted to sell them as products?)
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by Draxas »

TSC wrote:I dunno, I personally find it easier to believe that the more INhuman the androsynth are, the
easier it is to see that they would be mistreated. Whereas the more human they are the weirder I find it. (I mean even if they made cloned people that where otherwise fully human, I just find it a bit odd that society would readopt slavery. Whereas if the Androsynth are synthoids with human brains they might be seen more as a product. Sure it has a human brain, but that was grown for it and programmed.) But that's just me, it might have not been the intend with them.
Is it really that hard to believe? Humanity has a long and storied history of killing, enslaving, and/or generally repressing others who look different, and it still is going on today. The Androsynth would be just another outlet for bigotry, no matter how human they look.
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by Death 999 »

TSC wrote:I think it might have been from SC1 or a manual? If I google it I do find some pages that say it's short for android synthetic. Maybe that's all wrong?
Andro = man

Synth = made

Android = something like a man

Androsynth = man which was made
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by TSC »

Draxas wrote:
TSC wrote:I dunno, I personally find it easier to believe that the more INhuman the androsynth are, the
easier it is to see that they would be mistreated. Whereas the more human they are the weirder I find it. (I mean even if they made cloned people that where otherwise fully human, I just find it a bit odd that society would readopt slavery. Whereas if the Androsynth are synthoids with human brains they might be seen more as a product. Sure it has a human brain, but that was grown for it and programmed.) But that's just me, it might have not been the intend with them.
Is it really that hard to believe? Humanity has a long and storied history of killing, enslaving, and/or generally repressing others who look different, and it still is going on today. The Androsynth would be just another outlet for bigotry, no matter how human they look.

Yeah, I honestly do find it extremely hard to believe. I mean you might as well tell me that that they'll restart the slavery era in the US 100 years from now. I just don't buy it. Maybe you do, I don't. I'm cynical about humanity, but that's just to much.

If the Androsynth are fully human, it's just plain to weird for me. How could people even tell them apart anyway? But if they are more artificial creatures, neuter factory grown synthoids with programmed human brains, then it's easier to see, because alot of people might see such beings more as a product.

That's my opinion on it definitly. And as such I like the idea of them being a weird sort of not-quite-human clone much more as such then them just being a normal clone. Plus I think synthoid clones are more sci-fi-y and appealing to me as well.

Again though, I'm not saying that was necessarily the INTENT when the Androsynth where designed, it's just that that's the way I prefer to see them. And I think their cooler and more plausible that way to me.
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Death 999
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by Death 999 »

It's possible that they don't act human at all. That would throw people off a lot. Also, keep in mind that Star Control history is, uh, divergent from our own.
Last edited by Death 999 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by TSC »

Death 999 wrote:It's possible that they don't <i>act</i> human at all. That would throw people off a lot. Also, keep in mind that Star Control history is, uh, divergent from our own.


How divergent exactly? Because it'd have to be VERY divergent.

I mean, the way I see it with humanity... Although some people are malicious (usually vengeful if they are.) Most Humans tend to do most of the evil they do out of a combination of ignorance and pride.

Take bigots for example, there's quite a few flavours of those and the ones you'll see most are either smarmy creepy people who'll calmly explain their disgusting views or the 'hostile idiot who hates everything not like themselves'. But though there's certainly more of those then you'd want, I think alot of bigotry also comes from people being completely unfamiliar with whatever group they are bigoted against and only knowing negative stereotypes.

Ignorance basically. Which in turn produces fear, hate or disgust. But which can often melt away when they do end up interacting with these people. (Which isn't the case with smarmy supremacists or hostile idiots, but IS often so with the garden variety bigot, who I've seen warm up and shed their bigotry quite often when their ignorance was dispelled.)

A result is also that if humanity makes a mistake, they may make a VARIATION on that mistake. But unless there's this huge upheaval where the situation very radically changes. (And for slavery to come back I think the upheaval would have to be back to the stoneage with all history lost.) The EXACT same mistake isn't made again. Because people do teach their children SOMETHING about the mistakes of the past. Maybe not as much as would be best, but still, I think we can all agree that if there was ever another holocaust it will definitly not be against the jews, committed by germans. Something like that can't happen twice if people figured out that was wrong.

And slavery is like that. If the Androsynth are human (even if they act weird, but still are human, they'd be no less human then say... someone with particularly notable autism. Could you see those enslaved?) I mean... mistreated is one thing. Androsynth as human clones could be the subject of bigotry and mistreatment. But slavery is to much of stretch for me. That mistakes been made. There'd be tons of people opposing that vehemently. It's not feasible.

However if the Androsynth where more SYNTHETIC, that their human side was more ambiguous (Such as only being a brain.) Then that's a different story, because they'd appear much more robotic. Alot of people might think of them as robots with an organic processor. Biotechnology. Smart people would still figure out it's wrong, but smart people are always the minority. And with a more artificial Androsynth, slavery (especially if dressed up in the sense of seeing them as a product to by, rather then an actual slave (Even if de facto that WOULD be slavery), becomes far more realistic to me.


Again, it's my OPINION. Maybe the Androsynth where intended to be just human clones that where slaves. It's just I don't find that a particularly plausible storyline myself. And it becomes far more plausible to me if Androsynth are more artificial and less human. The more human they are, the less I buy it, simply because slavery's been a mistake already made (with other humans.)

I mean I'm cynical about humanity myself, but not because I think the world is full of evil people. More because the world is full of ignorant people, not evil people. But even the most ignorant people know slavery was not a good idea. And the ones that don't are an actively malevolent minority, and not a big one either.

So yeah, that's my view on it.


If I had to find a compromise though and have them be fully human clones and still enslaved I guess their method of creation and what comes out of it would be very artificial. Like grown to adulthood in a vat, neuter and genderless, and programmed instead of learning things. However even like that it stretches my suspense of disbelief a little more then more ambiguous synthoid brainclones do. Fact is, the more human they are, the more recognizably they bleed.
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by Maloo Oture »

Preach it! :lol:

Ignorance is exactly the cause for hatred.

And history DOES repeat itself in variations. For example: discrimination probably started with the Holy Wars. Then, more recently, it was based on race. African, Asian, Native American, and even now Middle Eastern. Aside from race, gender was also a big thing to debate. Now, it's homosexuals.

So could humans possibly enslave other human beings AGAIN? I think yes. Take the last example I gave; homosexuals. Let's say that their freedoms are slowly diminished to the point that they are treated worse than second class citizens. At that point, those who took care of them would want something in return. Care takers would then become masters and gays would become slaves.

That's how I imagine the Androsynth started and ended their time on Earth.
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Re: Your Opinion of the Androsynth

Post by TSC »

Maloo Oture wrote:Preach it! :lol:

Ignorance is exactly the cause for hatred.

And history DOES repeat itself in variations. For example: discrimination probably started with the Holy Wars. Then, more recently, it was based on race. African, Asian, Native American, and even now Middle Eastern. Aside from race, gender was also a big thing to debate. Now, it's homosexuals.

So could humans possibly enslave other human beings AGAIN? I think yes. Take the last example I gave; homosexuals. Let's say that their freedoms are slowly diminished to the point that they are treated worse than second class citizens. At that point, those who took care of them would want something in return. Care takers would then become masters and gays would become slaves.

That's how I imagine the Androsynth started and ended their time on Earth.


Well I'm bisexual myself (and the closest thing I have to a relationship at the moment is same sex), and well... Actually I think gay rights are going the other direction, young people aren't all tolerant. But the majority of them are. I don't think it'd be likely gay rights would be diminished, setbacks maybe, when elderly bigots throw alot of money at it (like what happened with Prop 8), but ultimately these old people'll die off and the younger generation is fine with gay rights. (And that's the US, western Europe is already pretty gayfriendly. (My country was the first to have gay marriage in fact far as I known.)

I don't think that march'd go backwards. Plus if it did, you can't identify gay people easily. When gay people where less tolerated they where often married with kids actually. And in my country there's quite a few from an older generation who eventually once gay people became more tolerated left their families for a gay relationship. I think my country is a good analogue, because the US in a sense is sort of a generation behind us in terms of tolerance. (Alot of our elderly people aren't very tolerant (some are, but many aren't) of homosexuals, but my parents generation usually is. (Whereas in the US it's that generation that has many intolerant people and the next that isn't to intolerant.)

I guess if you where gay and living in a rural southern US community things'd look very grim. Frankly those guys are very often complete assholes to gay people. Gay suicide rates are high in those area's definitly. But if you look at it in the entire western world, including the US, you can see the wind is changing towards the good. Like NY now having gay marriage again. (And California will have it back, because Prop 8 will sooner or later be struck down as unconstitutional, which it is, legally speaking.) Gay tolerance might penetrate last in those rural religious communities, but even there the younger people are more tolerant then the generation before them. And their children will likely be more tolerant still, because well... the culture next door becomes more tolerant and that DOES influence many of them. The haters aren't winning on the big scale, they're losing.

But lets say hypothetically gay people would get treated much worse... well then they become really hard to identify again. Because being openly gay would be suicide more or less. They'd be forced back into the closet. And thus more or less impossible to enslave. Although again, slavery seems to much of a stretch. And as I said I could see violence and bigotry against fully human Androsynth, just not enslavement myself.

I mean if people started enslaving beings that are fully human again, well... why was slavery wrong then when done to black people? It makes no sense that people'd do that again. Like there might be alot of people who don't like muslims now, but not many who would want a holocaust done against them. It doesn't happen.

That's why for the Androsynth to realistically be enslaved the slavers would HAVE to be able to say 'Well they're not really human.' And if they obviously ARE really human, they'd be a little to full of shit for that to fly. However if they where AMBIGUOUSLY human. Human in a way a normal person could overlook. THEN they could say 'Well Androsynth are just a product, a community, they're not born and raised, they come from a factory.' And many people would buy that. (There's quite a few people today who'd see an animal raised to human level intelligence still as an animal and inferior to humans nowadays for example, even if that wouldn't be the case if they where obviously just as intelligent. And likewise INhuman androsynth wouldn't register as people to many humans if they didn't know better. But human ones would.)

Also as for the race thing, race actually didn't go through phases. When white people where racist, they where racist against ALL races. Maybe more against some then other, but there was never a time when they where tolerant against non-white race A, but not non-white race B. Back then white people thought it was a scientific and self-evident fact that white people where superior to all other humans. That was the zeitgeist back then. And because they held the power it took along time to challenge. In fact you could say that until the horrors of the holocaust the racialist idea's didn't fall out of favour! When Hitler was only just starting off there where many people in the US too who thought he had the right idea. Now that changed of course, but it certainly didn't from day one. But after WWII those idea's increasingly became discredited. And nowadays not many people would think being a racist is a good thing.

Slavery on the other hand has been thought of as a horrible thing for much longer then racism even. So for that to come back against other humans is not really getting history. There has to be something weird going on. And factory produced synthoids would work better as such for me, far as the Androsynth goes.
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