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 Post subject: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:42 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Someone mentioned a SC-themed deck of cards, and I thought we could go one further and make it a tarot set. And not just the major arcana; that's for wimps. We need all 4 suits, 14 cards each, along with the 22 major arcana.

Each card has a fairly stable interpretation; we just need to figure out emblematic instances to put on each one.

For example, the Devil perfectly fits the Druuge, what with the chain and greed themes.

The two of wands says to me, "the takeoff of the Vindicator from Unzervalt".

So, this thread is for matching cards up to concepts for images in the Star Control setting.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:48 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Are we talking about the meaning of the cards or just the pictures?
Because indeed, the devil is associated with the druuge by the chains but also by the hidden meaning (bound to material desires).
But for example death would be the kohr-ah if you look at the picture, but the escape pod if you look at the meaning since it also means a new life/beginning :).


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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:35 pm 
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Which is also something the Kohr-Ah believe in, so I think they're definitely death.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Exploding starbase = The Tower?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:41 pm 
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Chenjesu as the hermit maybe? The following sounds well suited for them...

* Introspection ----- Silence ----- Guidance ----- Reflection

* Solitude ----- Looking inward ----- Reclusion ----- Being quiet

* Inner search ----- Deep understanding ----- Isolation

* Distance ----- Retreat ----- Philosophical attitude


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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:51 pm 
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I imagine the Zoq-Fot-Pik would be The World.

* Fulfillment

* Accomplishment / Success

* Integration

* Involvement


* Prospering

* Satisfaction / Repleteness

* Contentment / Good feelings

* Wholeness

And the Pkunk is The Star
* Calmness ----- Free-flowing love ----- Trust
* Tranquility ----- Peace of mind ----- Pure essence
* Hope ----- Serenity ----- Inspiration ----- Generosity
* Optimism ----- Joy ----- Faith ----- Regeneration
* Good will ----- Optimism ----- Harmony ----- Renewal of forces

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Last edited by chenjesuwizard on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:26 pm 
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I think the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah would be more fit for the Devil. I would give more suggestions, but I have no idea what a Tarot set is

(Looking it up right now)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:14 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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The Kohr-Ah are definitely not the Tarot devil. They're so alien it's hard to actually place them in the set. The set is built around human experience, and creeping persistent xenocide isn't exactly one of the things that needed to be included under normal circumsances. Kind of out of bounds. I'm thinking one of the cards about devastation, perhaps the nine of swords (night terrors) or ten of swords (totally stabbed to death with massive overkill).

The ZFP, I get more of a 4 of wands feeling, or maybe 3 of cups. Yeah, 3 of cups for sure.

Tanaka could be 4 of swords.

Hmm. What's ZEX? He'd fit as a twisted variant of the 9 of pentacles - he's skilled, and methodically gathering, and is refined... in certain ways.

By the way, while the Waite is standard, and the major arcana are well represented, I find the Robin Wood deck (which is based on the Waite deck to some extent) to be more expressive on the minor arcana (the major arcana do not stand up so well). Narm alert in some cases (e.g. 10 of cups). 9 of the cards are available on her site, several more as you go down the google search list.

I would never have been able to remember all of the meanings by poring over a Waite deck; with the Robin Wood deck in hand, it took only a few weeks to get them down.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Love this idea, maybe a little too much. Chalk it up to my long-standing appreciation for the Persona series, maybe.

Zelnick himself would be a good fit for the Fool, as he is the Zero; infinite possibilities and potential, but no direction (at least to start out).

I see Slylandro as the Magician. With their acquisition of the probes, they have had infinite possibilities opened to them, but they are also naive in using their new freedom and power.

High Priestess is difficult. My best idea is the Utwig, with their emphasis on the secret knowledge and mystical powers of the Ultron, as well as their willingness to share that knowledge freely. Possibly also the Arilou, with their hidden secrets, though their unwillingness to share them makes them a looser fit.

Talana is a shoe-in for Empress. She embodies mothering, attraction, fertility, etc. to a T.

The Emperor could possibly be the Chenjesu, as the father figures and leaders of the old Alliance. It's not a great fit, though, and I can't think of a better one.

Hayes could be the Heirophant. He is primarily concerned with advising Zelnick, and has a wealth of knowledge about a variety of topics to do so. He has much experience, and a high social position to go along with it. Of course, those same traits could also be associated with the Emperor, but I think that's not as good a fit.

Amusingly, barring the obvious choice of Talana again (I think she's a better fit for Empress), Admiral ZEX goes well with the Lovers. Interpret that as you will. :P-smf

The Yehat are a lock for the Chariot. They embody every trait of the arcana perfectly, both positive and negative (Conquest, honor, victory, inflexibility, pride, etc.)

Strength could be represented by the Chmmr. Besides their obvious external might, they also have great inner strength, patience, composure, and self-control, all aspects of the arcana.

As already mentioned, the Hermit is a good fit for the Chenjesu. Unfortunately, this conflicts with them as the Emperor, and I don't see any good alternatives for either.

Fortune could be represented by the Utwig Bomb. Discovery and acquisition of this artifact marks the turning point in the conflict of SC2, a stroke of luck that changes the fight from one of a struggle against impossible odds, to one with a chance of victory.

Justice could possibly be represented by the Melnorme. They express a desire to remain impartial in the conflict, selling their wares and information to anyone willing to pay, and attempt to remain objective in their discussions of events. However, they also seem to be interested in aiding Zelnick (seemingly offering him substantial discounts on their goods when compared to discussions with other races about the Melnorme), possibly seeking justice against the Ur-Quan for their narrow escape and loss of their homeworld when they were still knows as the Mael-Num.

I don't know why, but when I saw this topic, I immediately thought Kzer-Za = Hanged Man. They are so trapped by their own rituals and trauma that they embody the inability to act in a meaningful way, despite the misery they cause for others though their actions. Of course, the same inability to act could also be applied to the Utwig while the Ultron is still broken, or the Syreen before being galvanized to action by Zelnick and the Mycon egg cases.

The only choice for Death is the Kohr-Ah. They represent the end of all things, and possibly even the major transition aspect of the arcana (Perhaps you will be reincarnated as an Ur-Quan).

Temperance is best represented by the New Alliance itself (though good luck figuring out an image for that). Even moreso than the old Alliance, the New Alliance represents the coming together and harmony among opposites, and the balance and recovery of the entire sector.

Devil is probably best represented by the Druuge, as previously mentioned, as their obsession with material wealth and temptation to Zelnick to perform terrible deeds to acquire material goods are their defining characteristics.

The Tower could be represented by the Neo-Dnyarri. He is the embodiment of chaos, disruption, and ruin, at least of the Ur-Quan, and physically generates crises and uncomfortable experiences for both the Ur-Quan and Zelnick at different times.

As already mentioned, the Pkunk fit the Star arcana perfectly.

The Orz could correspond to the Moon. They are practically emblematic of lack of clarity, obfuscation, and confusion. Of course, the same could be said of the Mycon, though the Mycon lack the aspects of potential doubt, anxiety, and deception that come from the Orz when you look beyond the surface of their words.

Sun is probably best represented by the ZoqFotPik. As a whole, they are alomst always optimistic, cheerful, and enthusiastic about their role in the Alliance, despite all of the hardship that befalls them, and continually maintain an air of innocence through the whole ordeal.

Judgement should be represented by the destruction of the Sa-Matra. This event marks Zelnick and his allies passing judgement on the Ur-Quan, and redeeming the entire galaxy from the yoke of their tyranny. It marks a new beginning for all sentients.

The World is best represented by the Earth, as the slave shield is finally removed. This final event gives the entire journey meaning, and is the accomplishment sought since the story's beginning. It fulfills Zelnick's goal, and begins Humanity's new ascent toward prosperity once more.

Unfortunately, I'm rather unfamiliar with the meanings of the cards in the minor arcana, so I can't comment at this time. Hopefully the major arcana will suffice for now. ;)-smf


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 Post subject: Re: Star Control Tarot set
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Draxas wrote:
The Yehat are a lock for the Chariot.... Strength could be represented by the Chmmr. ... I don't know why, but when I saw this topic, I immediately thought Kzer-Za = Hanged Man. ... The Orz could correspond to the Moon.

agreed, often with fewer reservations than you expressed.

For the others, I have some other ideas or at least comments.

Draxas wrote:
Zelnick himself would be a good fit for the Fool...

I see Slylandro as the Magician...


I'd switch these. The magician is not the magician's apprentice. He is supposed to have a clue what he's doing, and though Zelnick is working it out as he goes along, he wins and doesn't kill thousands of people by sheer accident (that I can remember).

Or let Fwiffo be the fool. That's even better, I think.

Umgah?

Draxas wrote:
High Priestess is difficult. My best idea is the Utwig, with their emphasis on the secret knowledge and mystical powers of the Ultron, as well as their willingness to share that knowledge freely. Possibly also the Arilou, with their hidden secrets, though their unwillingness to share them makes them a looser fit.


I think Pkunk work well there as well. I just can't let the Star be associated with delusion or gullibility; ('bad month to travel!') the Priestess seems to me less protected from those, what with her 'ready to be influenced' attribute.

Draxas wrote:
Talana is a shoe-in for Empress. She embodies mothering, attraction, fertility, etc. to a T.


Yeah. We're going to have a bit of trouble filling in the face cards without her. We're going to have a lot of trouble filling them in regardless - there aren't that many specific individual characters!

Draxas wrote:
The Emperor could possibly be the Chenjesu, as the father figures and leaders of the old Alliance. It's not a great fit, though, and I can't think of a better one.

Ouch, yeah, hmm.

Draxas wrote:
Hayes could be the Heirophant.

For some reason, I think Mycon. Carrying on the ancient traditions. Frees up Hayes to be King of Pentacles or something.

Draxas wrote:
Amusingly, barring the obvious choice of Talana again (I think she's a better fit for Empress), Admiral ZEX goes well with the Lovers. Interpret that as you will. :P-smf

Lovers is a pair, which means that Talana and Zelnick, as an item, have not been taken. Especially as it more falls in line with events, which are a separate category from characters.

Hermit... Arilou, I think. Very withdrawn, yet still seeking to guide.

Draxas wrote:
Fortune could be represented by the Utwig Bomb. Discovery and acquisition of this artifact marks the turning point in the conflict of SC2, a stroke of luck that changes the fight from one of a struggle against impossible odds, to one with a chance of victory.

Hmm. Has some promise.

Draxas wrote:
Justice could possibly be represented by the Melnorme.
That's a stretch. Major stretch. Let's keep looking.

Draxas wrote:
The only choice for Death is the Kohr-Ah. They represent the end of all things, and possibly even the major transition aspect of the arcana (Perhaps you will be reincarnated as an Ur-Quan).


Disagree, as stated in my above post. They don't say you will, they say some believe in reincarnation, and if so, that may be comforting. They are more like k'z'k than Death. But K'z'k isn't a tarot card.
I think the disappearance of the Pkunk fits best here.

Draxas wrote:
Temperance is best represented by the New Alliance itself (though good luck figuring out an image for that). Even moreso than the old Alliance, the New Alliance represents the coming together and harmony among opposites, and the balance and recovery of the entire sector.


I think temperance would best be represented by a merciful act by Zelnick- perhaps giving the Thraddash some halfway decent advice instead of doing loopy dumb things with them - or even someone else, if we can find any other pertinent actors. Any better ideas?

Draxas wrote:
The Tower could be represented by the Neo-Dnyarri. He is the embodiment of chaos, disruption, and ruin, at least of the Ur-Quan, and physically generates crises and uncomfortable experiences for both the Ur-Quan and Zelnick at different times.


The Tower is the Sa-Matra. I think that trumps the Dnyarri. Agree?

Star... if we bumped Pkunk to the Priestess slot, that leaves Utwig free. Of course they're the only ones to be able to do 5 cups properly, but that doesn't mean they can't go elsewhere. But not Star. They're sort of Star, reversed.
I think that Star is best simply... a star. They're certainly prominent enough feature of the game to merit inclusion in the set!

Draxas wrote:
Sun is probably best represented by the ZoqFotPik. ... Judgement should be represented by the destruction of the Sa-Matra. ... The World is best represented by the Earth, as the slave shield is finally removed.


I am ambivalent on these, for reasons I can't yet articulate.


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