Dear Paul & Fred

This is the place to talk about all things Star Control.

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Lukipela
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Lukipela » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:28 pm

Zeracles wrote:All this ought to be obvious. These explanations to work around the inconsistency of the in-game universe with respect to resource gathering don't help because they bespeak an equally damaging omission - that facts so central to how stuff works don't get mentioned. They certainly should, given the depth of dialogue concerning on other subjects. Which allows reasonable doubt that this was not in fact the intended interpretation.
I may be completely wrong here but I think the lander principle was described in the manual. In those days a lot of information was ofte only found in the printed manual, which was considered part of the game. I could be wrong though.
Zeracles wrote:Well I rather would, because that's something else that always bothered me about this topic. Why one wouldn't protect the resources contained within one's actively-patrolled territory is a mystery to me.
It didn't bother me on the first play-through when everything was still new and shiny, but it did on later ones.
I'm not really knocking the game here, this is one of its foibles that has not aged well. I'll even concede that planet-landing resource gathering can be quite interesting, but I would like a new SC to be popular.
Oh I agree that if SCII was released today it would seem a bit empty in places and a new SC should certainly consider that.

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Megagun
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Megagun » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:37 pm

I've always enjoyed the thought of an open-source game with the Benevolent Dictatorship (from someone who knows what he's doing) as seen in many other open-source projects. A true sequel to SC2 probably lends itself really well to this style of development. First of all, it'd make development possible (Paul & Fred -presumably- have little resources), and it'd be a neat way to sidestep the Activision thingamajigs yet still get something done.

Unfortunately, I think that "the money thing" might be a bit of a dealbraker to Paul & Fred. Sure, you can make money with FOSS, but it's mostly donations or service. I don't doubt though that a FOSS sequel could be made, provided that Paul & Fred do a good part of the work, and don't just go "We want this and this, go make it!". An initial media coverage (and thus initial development boost) is pretty much guaranteed if Soulskill from Slashdot, and #freegamer on freenode are being poked.

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Zeracles
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Zeracles » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:45 am

Megagun wrote:I don't doubt though that a FOSS sequel could be made, provided that Paul & Fred do a good part of the work, and don't just go "We want this and this, go make it!".
I'd be quite happy with that dictatorial arrangement. As I'm sure you know, however cool some of our ideas might be, they need to have the support of the team, and PR3+FF's ideas are the only ones guaranteed (I think) to get full support.
Twinkle twinkle Paul and Fred (more)

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Death 999
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Death 999 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:52 pm

As for landers, I've always figured that the Precursor vessel's sensors are extremely sensitive to large, pure deposits. The lander can very quickly drill down and fetch them. But its specialized extraction system doesn't work on anything that isn't pure. So a dedicated mining operation and the landers are drawing from rather different sets of resources.

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Draxas
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Draxas » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:39 am

Death 999 wrote:The lander can very quickly drill down and fetch them. But its specialized extraction system doesn't work on anything that isn't pure.
"Degenerate matter" doesn't sound particularly pure to me. ;)-smf

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chenjesuwizard
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by chenjesuwizard » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:06 am

Draxas wrote:
Death 999 wrote:The lander can very quickly drill down and fetch them. But its specialized extraction system doesn't work on anything that isn't pure.
"Degenerate matter" doesn't sound particularly pure to me. ;)-smf
It's still a pure version of that matter, not an ore. It's just a more exotic pure element.

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Death 999
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Death 999 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:29 pm

Draxas wrote:
Death 999 wrote:The lander can very quickly drill down and fetch them. But its specialized extraction system doesn't work on anything that isn't pure.
"Degenerate matter" doesn't sound particularly pure to me. ;)-smf
Names can be deceiving. Especially when the name is based of a rather long chain of tenuous relationships to earlier concepts.

In this case, let's examine 'degeneracy'. Let's think about orbits. You can have all sorts of orbits. Elliptical, circular, inclined, etc. Some of these orbits are so closely related that once you've solved one of them, the others are basically the same. You've covered them already. Like, same orbit but a few seconds later. That's basically the same. Such orbits are considered 'degenerate'.

Now, in quantum mechanics, you often find symmetric systems. There'll be a ground state and some excited states. And some of these may be mirror copies of each other. These states, too, are considered degenerate. It is in quantum mechanics that the study of degenerate states and splitting them apart, 'lifting the degeneracy', became important.

In particular there can be something called a degenerate Bose Gas, better known as a Bose-Einstein Condensate; here, it is not multiple states with the same energy, but multiple particles occupying the same state. This requires things to be extremely cold. Also, they have to be Bosons to do that. If they were the other kind of particle, Fermions, they wouldn't be able to do that. Fermions can't be in the same state as each other.

But when physicists began considering extremely cold systems, they also looked at Fermions. And since BECs were Degenerate Bose Gases, they called this system degenerate as well, even though there were not necessarily any degenerate states. Also, these could form at high temperature if the pressure was high enough.

Anyway, the degenerate matter in question would be sort of halfway to neutronium. A slush of protons and electrons packed so tightly that it isn't really accurate to say that any one of the protons is in any particular location. This is the stuff that white dwarf stars and the cores of the largest gas giants are made of. It's not clear that it would ever be stable at low pressure, so one can consider this in the same general category as finding bulk antimatter on the surface.

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Draxas
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Re: Dear Paul & Fred

Post by Draxas » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:50 pm

Clearly, Quantum Physics has made me its bitch once again.

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