Dear Paul & Fred

This is the place to talk about all things Star Control.

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Axemaster
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:19 pm

I never had that much fun learning about the solar system and the vastness of space and it's planets until SC2 was released, (be it not truly scale etc, etc...for all the astronomers out there)

It made one realise just how vast and interesting the universe really is.

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Zeracles
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Zeracles » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:01 pm

Alvarin wrote:mining methods would also improve, so overall time/effort would stay not high.
I like the idea of some kind of mining tech tree.
Axemaster wrote:You have to EARN the big machines, gather resources it takes time,
when the hard work has paid off by getting the upgrades needed the excitement factor increases
where as if you would've had it from the start, the game would be meaningless and boring.
kind of like the rich man's spoiled kid getting everything he wants, he doesn't appreciate a thing,
everything becomes simple, easy and rewardless.
If we were spoon fed everything in our existance we would've been all fat and mentally challenged.
No-one's suggesting it be removed without some kind of substitute that is more fun.
Axemaster wrote:The more close to reality something is, the more people can relate and enjoy the experience.
Really? Mining a whole star system in a week is realistic to you? Don't you find it a bit strange there are still resources to be found in the Solar system? Why weren't they exploited to fight the Ur-Quan earlier? It's not realistic.
Nuclear wrote:Imo, mining could be left out for game plays sake, but planet landing has to be left in, since that adds much to the games detail and even game play itself {Land on Alpha Centauri's Ruby world(s) to pick up rare crystals that you would need to power a precursor generator?}
Agreed, as a mode of exploration it works.
Axemaster wrote:I CAN then expect that very savvy gamer to fully embrace resource gathering, it has been proven period.
Please don't say something like this unless it really is proven. That's your opinion, and although there are some here who also like the manual resource gathering, no-one else here seems to agree with you that the resource gathering would be a strong selling point in a new SC.

And I doubt TFB would either -
Fred Ford, 2007 chat wrote:<+robot> I think we would like to make planetside much more engaging as well.
Twinkle twinkle Paul and Fred (more)

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Eth
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Eth » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:21 pm

Having considered the traveling problem a bit more, I've thought of some more things to add. Zelda Windwaker, a relatively recent game, had a major traveling motif. You had to sail from island to island. However, things happened during the journeys. You passed other islands, which you could see and stop off at when you felt like it, enemies appear, sea monsters, bad weather, slalom courses... basically a bunch of minigames were built into the traveling mechanic. SC2 had a bunch of more-or-less identical stars, and various black circles which could mean a conversation and/or melee battle. There simply wasn't enough different interesting things to do in hyperspace.

As far as 2D vs. 3D goes, I think that the thing that should remain unchanged is the basic melee game mechanics. Those mechanics were already nearly 30 years old when TFB used them in SC1. It's a classic, and I think that it's what people expect from Star Control.

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Fred » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:59 am

We considered both mining and hyperspace travel time a lot. We definitely wanted you to experience the 'bad' so that you would more enjoy the 'good'. We also tried to give you other options for mining (e.g. scavenging ships after a space battle) and to make 'leveling up' happen not too slowly if you tried.

I (and I'm sure Paul would too) appreciate your views and don't disagree with many (any?) of them -- it's just a matter of degree and realizing you're not going to please everybody.

On a side note, I want to mention that I've started doing some unspecified work away from the office after some early and continuing conversations with Paul. Just saying . . . and it's way early yet . . . and it's just me . . . so, yeah.

Best,
Fred

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Cedric6014
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Cedric6014 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:15 am

Zeracles/Eth, FF agrees with me with respect to the importance of boring bits. In your faces. (blows raspberry)

Fred wrote:
On a side note, I want to mention that I've started doing some unspecified work away from the office after some early and continuing conversations with Paul. Just saying . . . and it's way early yet . . . and it's just me . . . so, yeah.

Best,
Fred

I wish you guys wouldn’t get our hopes up like that! Last time (circa ’07) you said something like “Paul’s really fired up has been brainstorming ideas like mad.”

We want a sequel, we know you want a sequel. But we all know Activision is a bit iffy. As you say, if you’re gonna work on it, it will prolly have to be on your spare time.

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Draxas » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:28 am

Eth wrote:Having considered the traveling problem a bit more, I've thought of some more things to add. Zelda Windwaker, a relatively recent game, had a major traveling motif. You had to sail from island to island. However, things happened during the journeys. You passed other islands, which you could see and stop off at when you felt like it, enemies appear, sea monsters, bad weather, slalom courses... basically a bunch of minigames were built into the traveling mechanic. SC2 had a bunch of more-or-less identical stars, and various black circles which could mean a conversation and/or melee battle. There simply wasn't enough different interesting things to do in hyperspace.
It's also no coincidence that (besides the cel shaded graphics, and that pretty much died off long ago) the most controversial part of the game is whether sailing is fun, immersive, and interesting, or dull, monotonous, and bogs the pace of the game down. Even when there are lots of things to do within a "travel" mechanic, some people are still going to hate it if it's not the "insta-travel" that many modern games spoil us with, no matter how much it adds to the atmosphere.
Fred wrote:On a side note, I want to mention that I've started doing some unspecified work away from the office after some early and continuing conversations with Paul. Just saying . . . and it's way early yet . . . and it's just me . . . so, yeah.
Oh please don't tease us like that. We all want to see and know what you guys are working on so badly, but the hints are so vague! Then again, just knowing that we have something to look forward to helps smooth that over a bit.

Aw man, now I'm all excited about this again and have no outlet. :(-smf

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:16 am

"Really? Mining a whole star system in a week is realistic to you? Don't you find it a bit strange there are still resources to be found in the Solar system? Why weren't they exploited to fight the Ur-Quan earlier? It's not realistic."

I can see you are highly frustrated with the time it takes to mine.
I dunno, if this really has to be changed then i leave it up to TFB to decide. But making resources too easy to find would not be the solution. In addition it must have a sense of adventure/exploration and realism.

I feel one must earn your ship/battleships/upgrades and be part of the action/exploration first hand. Discovering valuable minerals, fighting the elements.

As for the methods:

In reality if we as humans should go out to mine an asteroid/planet, we would take with a spaceship carrying equipment to land on a planet/asteroid and build the infrastructure to mine it. Kind of like an rts today (except SC2 made it quicker by bypassing all the ground infrastructure so one could focus on the game as a whole and not stay focussed on one planet.

So when you send a pod down to mine a planet in SC2, you
have the mothership sending the pod down to mine, that is realistic.

Only difference is you don't build infrastructure like in an rts game with buildings/ harversters and all to mine.

The fun was being in the action, figting the monsters, dodging the tectonics, firey surface, lightning all real planetary effects on an alien world, some of those aliens would suddenly appear from a side and was quite creepy at times, i enjoyed that, i also liked discovering new technology, yes that is important.

To adress your frustration with the time issue, i think Alvarin has the solution:

"A very good question!

I think I might have the solution for that - In the beginning the needs for resources are minimal, and most can be obtained other ways, though mining would still be required here and there. Maybe some specific mineral, like the radioactives at the very beginning of UQM. Towards middle of the game, there would be much greater need for minerals of different types, but mining methods would also improve, so overall time/effort would stay not high. To the end of the game the mining would cease to be necessary."


There was a time in the game that i had enough resources and mining became less frequent, that was good, but it must be part of the game throughout, near the end, you might have enough resources and then it might not be needed.

"Please don't say something like this unless it really is proven. That's your opinion, and although there are some here who also like the manual resource gathering, no-one else here seems to agree with you that the resource gathering would be a strong selling point in a new SC."

Mining in Rts games is proven, it's not about my opinion. It is part of the core in every rts game which has been unquestionably succesfull
throughout the years. In SC2, the only difference is you steer the vehicle in realtime.
Last edited by Axemaster on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Axemaster
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:30 am

Fred, Welcome to the thread.
I am glad you guys are still very Keen on a new Star Control. Whatever you are working on, well that's just pure excitement.

From my and everyone's else's side here. Regardless of any setbacks.
We are as much fired up as ever, providing added inspiration to get that sequal going.

Glad to have you joining in!

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Lukipela » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:43 pm

Eth wrote:
cymon wrote:[*]Keep the graphics bright and visible. Please resist the urge to make it "dark" and "realistic".
QFT. The colorful graphics went a long way toward establishing the game's mood, I think. Some of the ships (Cmmr, Kohr-Ah, etc.) where relatively colorless, while others were very colorful. The ships were generally very iconic and readable.
Absolutely. No dark gritty hard future, we want colours of all sorts and extravagant nuances!
Traveling through hyperspace and gathering resources were both rather tedious, and should probably be eliminated in a new Star Control game in favor of something more interesting, IMO.
I see this has been debated a lot and I wonder how it could be solved so that everyone was happy. For me it helped underscore the fact that the universe was vast the first time around, but by the fourth or fifth run through it got tedious. I like the Zelda suggestion, but I really didn't feel like it was grinding to begin with.
cymon wrote:[*]Do you need anyone to consult for writing? I've got pages I wrote years ago if you want them. No, bad idea. nevermind.
I say, some of us have published plenty of SC fandom adventures and fictional stories with impeccable taste and should definitely be on the writing team long before those who have just "written" stuff" but you're right I think they can handle this on their own.

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:39 pm

"I see this has been debated a lot and I wonder how it could be solved so that everyone was happy. For me it helped underscore the fact that the universe was vast the first time around, but by the fourth or fifth run through it got tedious. I like the Zelda suggestion, but I really didn't feel like it was grinding to begin with."

Here's a suggestion while discussing it with some of my friends,
we came up with this idea:

Make it possible so that one can play 2 or 3 races in the game then:
Each race has it's own method of travelling, Let the humans do hyperspace pleasing the ones who enjoy this. (i can do hyperspace forever, and it would kill the game for many without it) And let the other races travel in a different way, pleasing the others, opening suggestions to whatever methods wanted to be discussed. However it will have to be carefully thought out so that one does not have an unfair advantage compared to the other.

Same for those who does not want to do mining, change the methods for the other races. Keep human mining as is.

QFT. The colorful graphics went a long way toward establishing the game's mood, I think. Some of the ships (Cmmr, Kohr-Ah, etc.) where relatively colorless, while others were very colorful. The ships were generally very iconic and readable.

Absolutely. No dark gritty hard future, we want colours of all sorts and extravagant nuances!


Yes i cannot disagree, i really liked the bright colours, keep it flowing
TFB, we like it.
Last edited by Axemaster on Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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