Dear Paul & Fred

This is the place to talk about all things Star Control.

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Cedric6014
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Cedric6014 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:44 pm

I have to agree with Axemaster here

What made SC2 such great fun (at least for me) was the atmosphere. Travelling all those light years built up the anticipation. It gave the sense that getting to Draconis, Persei or Aquarii to potentially meet some unknown races was something terribly exciting. Staring at the screen for many minutes waiting to get there, avoiding Probes, Kohr-Ah and Ur-Quan, passing other systems..

The problem with SC3 is you could warp to wherever the hell you wanted so it didn’t seem like you were travelling vast distances. The vast distances in SC2, and more specifically the time it took to get there, meant that you knew you were going somewhere exotic and different.

I am all for keeping the travel. I had the time and patience for the space travel part. I thought it was fantastic. I appreciate that many won’t though which is why I don’t think commercial success of the sort of sequel we want is a given.

And I thought the fact that your tug could only go 60 kph to start with was great as well. Made it even cooler to get those minerals and afford the technology to go fast. And when the story heats up and you are well resourced – about then you get the Quasispace portal spawner an can focus on the quests.

It would be a poorer game if you could do everything right from the start without earning it.

The resource gathering was a bit of a drag at times, but I liked it. Those dozens of urea and dust worlds you had to sift through made it all worthwhile when you stumbled across a sapphire world.

Eth: we all play games to have fun, but you read a book for fun and much of any book is a bit of a grind. Lord of the Rings anyone? Doesn’t matter because as a whole it’s a fantastic story and when you’ve finished you think ‘wow, what a journey’.

The only real issue I have is that its easy to run out of time first time round and then you have to start all over again, including getting minerals from all the same damn planets.

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Anthony » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:48 am

Death 999 wrote:
Draxas wrote:If a sequel is ever going to be made, I trust the guys at TFB so implicitly that I don't think sending them suggestions for the game is necessary.
QFT. They know what they doing. For great justice.
QFT... Again. :D

It's really hard for me to make any suggestions.

The video game industry has changed so much over the years. If TFB does get the chance to work on Star Control again, it's definitely going to be different, especially with new tech and the team is much larger than it was back then; there will be more people giving their input for the project.

I like Cymon's suggestions; ask that they take their time with it, try something new and surprise us. :D The storyline is deep enough for any future sequels, prequels if they choose to do so.
cymon wrote: * Give yourself the time to make it proper.
* As long as you guys are doing the writing, I'm okay with about anything.
* Do something new. Surprise me.
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Zeracles » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:25 am

Axemaster wrote:Of Course Melee is also just perfect as is, keep it that way,
I (and I suspect most of the rest of us) would like the melee expanded. In many ways that've been discussed in many other threads.
Axemaster wrote:Same goes for the resources that was gathered, It is unique and pretty much as close as realistic as can be without making it
un-enjoyable and over complex.
Manual resource gathering sucks hard, IMO. To me, it is neither fun nor internally consistent (mine a whole star system in a week?). TFB can leave it in there for the masochists, but if we want to attract new players, it either has to go or be retained alongside a more interesting alternative (blowing up hundreds of enemy ships is not a more interesting alternative).

To those of you who like the manual resource gathering - do you really think it appeals to the average bloke who tries out UQM for the first time, who doesn't feel the same nostalgia you do? I'm certain it has turned away many would-be fans - and even people who have played it in the past who just can't be arsed anymore. I know because I could easily be one of them. Let me put the question another way: how many here play UQM for all the excitement of resource gathering?
Cedric6014 wrote:Eth: we all play games to have fun, but you read a book for fun and much of any book is a bit of a grind. Lord of the Rings anyone? Doesn’t matter because as a whole it’s a fantastic story and when you’ve finished you think ‘wow, what a journey’.
The longueurs found in a decent novel, orchestral music or even test match cricket are a lot more interesting than resource gathering.

On the other hand, I didn't mind navigating, but the other ships really need to work on their intercept skills . . .
cymon wrote:
  • Keep the game in 2D, even if the graphics are in 3D. In fact that's be great. 3D graphics with a 2D playing field, I'm okay with that. Play with different viewing angles.
I think 3D could be cool in some ways, but not so good in others. Maybe if I actually played recent games or any games I'd have a stronger opinion.
Cedric6014 wrote:getting minerals from all the same damn planets.
This is a vote for increased replayability, right? I'll second that.
Twinkle twinkle Paul and Fred (more)

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Alvarin » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:05 pm

...how many here play UQM for all the excitement of resource gathering?
A very good question!

I think I might have the solution for that - In the beginning the needs for resources are minimal, and most can be obtained other ways, though mining would still be required here and there. Maybe some specific mineral, like the radioactives at the very beginning of UQM. Towards middle of the game, there would be much greate3r need for minerals of different types, but mining methods would also improve, so overall time/effort would stay not high. To the end of the game the mining would cease to be necessary.

Same could go for navigation - in UQM example - low thrusters, then full set, then portal spawner.
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:25 pm

"what made SC2 such great fun (at least for me) was the atmosphere. Travelling all those light years built up the anticipation. It gave the sense that getting to Draconis, Persei or Aquarii to potentially meet some unknown races was something terribly exciting. Staring at the screen for many minutes waiting to get there, avoiding Probes, Kohr-Ah and Ur-Quan, passing other systems..

The problem with SC3 is you could warp to wherever the hell you wanted so it didn’t seem like you were travelling vast distances. The vast distances in SC2, and more specifically the time it took to get there, meant that you knew you were going somewhere exotic and different.

I am all for keeping the travel. I had the time and patience for the space travel part. I thought it was fantastic. I appreciate that many won’t though which is why I don’t think commercial success of the sort of sequel we want is a given.

And I thought the fact that your tug could only go 60 kph to start with was great as well. Made it even cooler to get those minerals and afford the technology to go fast. And when the story heats up and you are well resourced – about then you get the Quasispace portal spawner an can focus on the quests.

It would be a poorer game if you could do everything right from the start without earning it.

The resource gathering was a bit of a drag at times, but I liked it. Those dozens of urea and dust worlds you had to sift through made it all worthwhile when you stumbled across a sapphire world"


Well said , In addition, RTS games today also build up the anticipation how?
You start out with low ranked units, low armored tanks, buildings etc.
You have to EARN the big machines, gather resources it takes time,
when the hard work has paid off by getting the upgrades needed the excitement factor increases
where as if you would've had it from the start, the game would be meaningless and boring.
kind of like the rich man's spoiled kid getting everything he wants, he doesn't appreciate a thing,
everything becomes simple, easy and rewardless.
If we were spoon fed everything in our existance we would've been all fat and mentally challenged.

RTS today sells by the 100s of thousands, using this earn your reward principle. That is part of what makes it a success, that is why you must keep Hyperspace, and resource gathering, leave that out and you might as well leave the game behind. The reason SC3 flawed.

The more close to reality something is, the more people can relate and enjoy the experience.

"To those of you who like the manual resource gathering - do you really think it appeals to the average bloke who tries out UQM for the first time, who doesn't feel the same nostalgia you do? I'm certain it has turned away many would-be fans - and even people who have played it in the past who just can't be arsed anymore. I know because I could easily be one of them. Let me put the question another way: how many here play UQM for all the excitement of resource gathering?"

The kicker regarding resource gathering SC2 Style is and let me add first a well thought out concept, is that many dangerous worlds had the most valuable minerals. Sending a pod down to collect and trying to avoid as much danger as possible, gathering as much of the
most valuable resources while dodging tectonics, creepy aliens and weather was brilliant!

Also just think what they can create with TODAYS technology in that regard, 1000mph Jupiter storms to avoid, Lightning dust storms, creeepier aliens, AWESOME. The excitement of Reward vs danger vs exploration down there was a magic combination! In real life we have only the rovers roving mars. To actually go to a distant planet and exploring it's mysteries while gathering exotic and mysterious resources is part of what exploration is all about !!!
Last edited by Axemaster on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Nuclear » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:56 pm

gathering as much of the
most valuable resources while dodging tectonics, and weather was awesome
Frustrating as hell if you didn't have the right lander upgrades, but I would do it anyway. Sometimes I would have to load back after my lander was destroyed, but it usually payed off in the end.

Mining planets was long and tedious, but it was also fun in a few ways. It sort of played like an arcade style, where you dodged hazards to pick up resources. You would then use these resources later in the game for other things, so mining in the first place was an integrated part of the game. I should also add that visiting planets was one of the ways you can see just how much detail TFB put into making the galaxy, I actually thought it was fun to see all the different planets in individual solar systems, and if I was bored enough, the individual planets statistics ;)-smf .

Imo, mining could be left out for game plays sake, but planet landing has to be left in, since that adds much to the games detail and even game play itself {Land on Alpha Centauri's Ruby world(s) to pick up rare crystals that you would need to power a precursor generator?}
To those of you who like the manual resource gathering - do you really think it appeals to the average bloke who tries out UQM for the first time, who doesn't feel the same nostalgia you do? I'm certain it has turned away many would-be fans
Unfortunately, I have to agree with this, if there IS a modern sequel for StarControl, then we can't expect everyone who plays it to have played StarControl 2 or the Ur-Quan Masters before. Those who had would probably put up with resource gathering for nostalgias sake, but those who are new to StarControl would probably turn the very concept away for being boring, long, and generally tedious.

One thing new that I would like to see in a new StarControl game is the ability to set your opponents melee skill level for the adventure game. I remember that the first thing that I did on StarControl 2 was go into melee to get acquainted with all the ships. I would play a quick round and then jump into the adventure game. A little while later, I was either murdered by Ilwrath or Burnt to a crisp by a Slylandro, and it's all because the game sees fit to keep the computers melee skill at its highest, permanently. {Unless your counting the damaged Ilwrath/Shofixti ships}. I wasn't that bad at melee, after all, I played tons of melee in StarControl 3 {one of its most broken, yet entertaining aspects} so I was already averaged at StarControl 2's melee. But lets just take a scenario where a little upstart is playing his new StarControl game, he ignores melee {if there is any such mode in the new game} and jumps right into the adventure game, gets his ship destroyed by an over skilled opponent and promptly quits because he keeps dieing. That isn't good for business. You can't just expect someone to go into melee and practice for a few days before playing adventure. They should have adaptive difficulty for those who are new to melee and legendary #uqm-arena grand champions ;)-smf
Last edited by Nuclear on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:11 pm

Also in hyperspace maybe they could add some space weather, bring on some asteroids to dodge, maybe have sort of a ripple in the spacetime fabric (shockwave) that could damage your ship if you hot it at the wrong angle make it feel like the ship is fighting the elements as in real life.

Of course a radar would be nice to see it coming, but just enough so as to not spoil it's effects on the fun factor.

Yes indeed landing is mandatory, so is mining, it would be insane to
stare at a beautifully created planet (with todays tech just imagine who cool it can look) not being able to explore it's mysteries !!!

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:22 pm

"To those of you who like the manual resource gathering - do you really think it appeals to the average bloke who tries out UQM for the first time, who doesn't feel the same nostalgia you do? I'm certain it has turned away many would-be fans"

Here's what i agree and disagree regarding that statement:

UQM is outdated, one cannot expect a savvy gamer to stumble upon UQM and go full blown play storymode and expect him to get a kick out of it. Because todays savvy gamer is used to todays games. With all it's future tech graphics, and dynamics. The game needs to be updated to today's technology but keep the story, the core, the gameplay along with the other things mentioned the same. Then
our savvy gamer of today will take notice, start to play the game and discover the Nostalgia we've been going on about for so long.
And i have mentioned the above in a previous post here.

Also, if you take the people that played the game back then, having that "nostalgia" as well as the people who played the other titles back then, all shared the same excitement, meaning that the guy who played Dune2 back then, found the same "addiction" factor in Dune2 as they do with for example Starcraft2 today, Command and Conquer, or other Big RTS players today.

So,

Proven the fact that resource gathering is succesful in todays RTS games and adding the UPGRADED technology, graphics, dimensions, sounds. Making him in a way familiar with what he is used to.

I CAN then expect that very savvy gamer to fully embrace resource gathering, it has been proven period.

SC2 resource gathering is just a bit different, it puts you right in the action first hand! Exciting.
Last edited by Axemaster on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Nuclear » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:27 pm

Axemaster wrote: Yes indeed landing is mandatory, so is mining, it would be insane to
stare at a beautifully created planet (with todays tech just imagine who cool it can look) not being able to explore it's mysteries !!!
This sort of brings me to my next point, music. The music in a new StarControl game should match the unrivaled awesomeness of its predecessor. One of the things I didn't like about the game Spore was that its music was terrible imo, it was way too layed back and uninteresting. It was like the game designers were too afraid to get creative and experiment with the music so they stayed "careful" and made the soundtrack soft and incredibly boring. What does this have to do with planet exploration? Well, in Spore, you could see all the planets in all their glory, but the one thing, the ONE thing that pretty much destroyed it was the music, which sucked. I could honestly listen to orbit.mod loop for an hour, its just such a nice song, where as Spores orbit music I could care less about. Even the 3DO's new orbit music kicked Spore's music's ass.

My favorite way of having the music done in a new game would probably be remixes of all the original tunes, but this of course has been done many times before.
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Re: Dear Paul Reiche III

Post by Axemaster » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:13 pm

"This sort of brings me to my next point, music. The music in a new StarControl game should match the unrivaled awesomeness of its predecessor"

You're right Nuke.
In fact i cannot think of ANY other title in that era that had better music than Star Control 2. Besides what's been mentioned, it really added to the "X-factor" in SC2.

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