The Chmmr Avatar

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Shiver
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by Shiver » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:31 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:Question: Is there any tactic to give the Yehat a chance against the combination of the Avatar’s tractor beam, laser and ZapSats?
Kind of. If you want to talk PvE, yes. Fly perpendicular to the Avatar and keep turning in one direction, flying around them in a spiral, to gradually build up some distance from them. Once you've got some, do a strafing run on the Avatar, shoot them a little, and do the shield tapping trick* to negate most/all damage. Fly past them, not into them, and spend as little time within attack range as possible. If you strafe them right, you should be able to put a little damage on your opponent (or at least one of their satellites) and get away clean. Then start building up distance again by flying around Chmmr in a spiral again. Repeat many times to beat Chmmr with Yehat.

PvP is not so nice. Yehat has low mass, giving Chmmr's tractor beam a very strong pull against the ship. but Yehat can still inflict some damage on Chmmr. There is potential for an upset victory, but not because Yehat is good against Chmmr. Yehat vs Chmmr is a rarely played match-up, so things can work in Yehat's favor because most players' Chmmr won't have a perfect feel for how much tractor beam to use or when the best times to pull them in are to ruin Yehat's day. Yehat can get lucky and keep slipping away to come back for more quick strikes, similar to the cyborg match I described above. Flying in one continuous spiral isn't applicable though, as players aren't going to single-mindedly pursue.

* Shield tapping trick: If you hold "secondary fire", the ship's battery drains by 3 energy per frame and depletes very quickly. The shields can stay up for much longer by tapping the shield button at just the right speed. ~2.5 taps per second gives extended protection for pretty good energy efficiency, if I'm remembering right.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by The Troglodyte » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Shiver wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:Question: Is there any tactic to give the Yehat a chance against the combination of the Avatar’s tractor beam, laser and ZapSats?
Kind of. If you want to talk PvE, yes. Fly perpendicular to the Avatar and keep turning in one direction, flying around them in a spiral, to gradually build up some distance from them. Once you've got some, do a strafing run on the Avatar, shooting them a little, and do the shield tapping trick* to negate most/all damage. If you strafe them right, you should be able to put a little damage on your opponent (or at least one of their satellites) and get away clean. Then start building up distance again by flying around Chmmr in a spiral again. Repeat many times to beat Chmmr with Yehat.

[…]

* Shield tapping trick: If you hold "secondary fire", the ship's battery drains by 3 energy per frame and depletes very quickly. The shields can stay up for much longer by tapping the shield button at just the right speed. ~2.5 taps per second gives extended protection for pretty good energy efficiency, if I'm remembering right.
I gave it a go, and actually had some success using the method you described. I like the tip about the shield tapping trick, but there is definitely a learning curve to keep the intervals consistent, and my attention would usually start wavering as I approached the Avatar and then my attention got diverted to focus more on firing the cannons, but I bet with some practice I could get a little better.

Fortunately, the strafing technique you described made up tremendously for my other shortcomings, and since the computer is very straightforward in its tractor beam implementation, it makes it much easier to adjust your Terminator’s direction and thrust to compensate for the tug, but it’s easy to fall into the trap of facing the Avatar to unload on the ZapSats, at which time the tractor will bring the Yehat vessel into a “point of no return” which was unfortunately my undoing a few times.

I also had a small degree of success using the Utwig’s ram, bounce and fire tactical maneuver, but the Jugger is much better suited for this approach, because if the Yehat doesn’t bounce off the Avatar’s nose correctly… it’s dead. Still, all in all the strategy was sound, and I managed to destroy 5 (almost 6) Avatars with a fleet of Terminators, which is a big improvement for me, and I bet I could even do better next time. Thanks Shiver!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:44 pm

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“I gaze into all that will be. I follow the tiny thread that is you, Captain. I see shining rocks that sleep. They are annoyed. Someone is making a great explosion of light. They awaken! They are powerful. They face the one who disturbed them. Captain, that one wears your face.” – Pkunk
14 Chmmr Avatars (14 x 30 = 420 pts.)
VS.
14 Pkunk Furys
(14 x 20 = 280 pts.)
RESULTS: Chmmr wins with 12 remaining Avatars!
Approximate battle time: 6 minutes
Pkunk ship resurrections: 23!!
Ridiculous unnecessary planetary collisions by the Avatar: 3

ANALYSIS: The action was so fast-paced and the Pkunk were getting torn up faster than paper through a shredder -- I had to keep my pen trained close to the paper to continuously mark each resurrection, and they were happening so quickly it was tough to keep up. Plus, the Chmmr were persistent and unwavering in their approach, since their demeaner is rather logical and controlled like a Vulcan, so I couldn’t imagine them ever shouting “Just stay dead already!”… like I was.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

krulle
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by krulle » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:32 pm

Well, I always had the feeling a quick death after battle start is helpful in getting a higher chance of resurrections.
Quite likely not true, yet it always felt that way....

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Death 999
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by Death 999 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:17 pm

That would be an interesting mechanic - rush in quick because it doesn't matter. Would change the Shofixti matchup, with the Shofixti wanting to flee until the resurrection boost period was over.

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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by krulle » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:14 pm

There were more things I had a feeling which influenced.
-full battery increased chance
-low crew before last attack (1 or 2 crew member) decreased resurrection chance.

These two I could, when Istarted to note down my record, put down to being a fable.
But the "early in match" I could not deprove through statistics.
May have been a fluke, never looked that detailed into the code, so the feeling remained...

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:25 pm

krulle wrote:Well, I always had the feeling a quick death after battle start is helpful in getting a higher chance of resurrections.
Quite likely not true, yet it always felt that way....
I remember Quasispatial stating somewhere that the probability of resurrection is basically a coin flip, but the results are actually determined beforehand, and thus whether or not the resurrection will occur has already been confirmed before the Fury is ever destroyed.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by krulle » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:03 am

http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Star_Control_II_facts#Pkunk_Events wrote:The chance of a Pkunk ship resurrecting in a battle is an unbiased 50 % (equal to a coin flip). Whether it happens or not depends on what the game's random state happens to be at that very moment.
WARNING: the page contains SPOILERS, not only about Pkunk, but also other races/items. I therefore remvoed the URL tags, so that the link is not clickable.

"That very moment" is not defined. Within that context, it sounds like the moment of death.
The page itself does not provide more context....

[edit2] found the post you were referring to:
[url=http://www.star-control.com/community/viewtopic.php?p=22966#p22966]Quasispatial[/url] on 9 September 2015 wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:Is it really a 50% chance of resurrection every time, or were you speaking figuratively?
It is, in fact, a 50% chance each time so, theoretically, a Fury can live forever if you're just sufficiently lucky.
Fun fact: whether or not the Fury will respawn is decided when it jumps in and/or respawns, not when it dies. Of course, there's no real way of telling what the computer picked before you actually get blown up, so it doesn't really matter all that much.
Does someone here have editing rights to add this tidbit of information to the Ultronomicon?

[edit3] found an even older post on the UQM forum:
[url=http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=128.msg7256#msg7256]Matt[/url] on the UQM forums, 4 April 2003 wrote:Another neat thing (assuming I'm interpreting the source correctly; I may not be, as I only took a quick glance at it a while back): Whether or not it ressurects is determined when it is created, not when it dies. So, the Pkunk have a destiny, to some extent. Seems somewhat approprate :)
(page is spoiler free, that thread only discusses the number of resurrections someone had, and theories regarding influencing the chances of resurrections.
Also, even after the cited post, Matt's post counter is "0"....)

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by The Troglodyte » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:30 pm

Well, while we await any possible confirmation, here’s the next match-up:
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“Your instincts are like perfume… your motives a shimmering crystal.” ― Arilou
14 Chmmr Avatars (14 x 30 = 420 pts.)
VS.
14 Arilou Skiffs
(14 x 16 = 224 pts.)
RESULTS: Chmmr wins with 12 remaining Avatars!
Approximate battle time: 3 minutes
Skiff Teleportations: ~10

ANALYSIS: The Arilou was up against it; their chances for survival were extremely low. Heck, the chances of them even taking out a ZapSat were unobtainable, but that’s only because the computer doesn’t understand how to redirect their focus to anything other than the main target. It would also seem that the Arilou’s programming forced them to not consider the ZapSat threat and they charged right through the perimeter, (only teleporting away to safety if they fell in direct line with the Avatar’s big laser), and then they’d start firing on the Avatar’s hull, followed by activating the teleporter as they began taking crossfire from the orbiting sentries. One other note, the 6th and 14th Skiff were credited with the final blows to the 2 fallen Avatars, but the dead crystal’s satellites were also credited with finishing off the temporarily victorious Arilou.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Chmmr Avatar

Post by The Troglodyte » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:35 pm

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“My personal guess as to why they were sent here is that they’re on the leading edge of a colonization project, and once the Mmrnmhrm have tamed enough new worlds, the genuine colonists -- whoever they are, will arrive and claim their due.” ― Commander Hayes
14 Chmmr Avatars (14 x 30 = 420 pts.)
VS.
14 Mmrnmhrm X-Forms
(14 x 19 = 266 pts.)
RESULTS: Chmmr wins with 11 remaining Avatars!
Approximate battle time: 4 minutes

ANALYSIS: The main I’d like to say is… “X-Form!! It’s time to meet your big brother!” The Mmrnmhrm seldomly switched over to the faster y-form, and usually only when they’d spawn from far away, and of course their missiles were rendered invariably useless against the ZapSats. Both ships would basically charge each and duke it out with their lasers, and there may have even been moments during the exchange when all 6 laser possibilities were commencing simultaneously! The Avatar could handle up to four X-Forms before they’d eventually succumb to the laser fire; this was also helped by the fact there were hardly any times when the Chmmr needed to use the Tractor Beam. Interestingly enough though, there was on one occasion that a Mmrnmhrm spawned from far away and immediately switched forms and fired a few pairs of missiles as the Chmmr activated the tractor beam, and it pulled the already thrusting y-form to travel even faster and actually overtook and passed the missiles it had just fired!
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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