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 Post subject: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:56 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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What is your opinion of the Orz Nemesis?

I think it’s definitely one of the most coolest looking ships, with its big ole rotating cannon and sleek design, it’s a mean-looking sucker! Then, to top it off, the ability to unleash Space Marines to attack enemy ships is an awesome addition!

However, I find it difficult to use in battle effectively: I find the Howitzer Cannon difficult to aim properly with the button configuration, especially while trying to get the ship in the optimal firing position and dodging incoming attacks. I also find it cumbersome when deploying Space Marines to do so in a manner that’s fluid and consistent, since you have to hold down both buttons to perform the action. For those reasons, when I’m using the Nemesis in fights, I mostly fly around away from the target and let loose a Space Marine every now and then and let them hopefully do most of (if not all) the work for me.

That being the case, I find myself somewhat tempted to let the AI fly the ship for me in SC2 story-mode, since the AI seems to be able to do a much better job than I when using the Orz, so I’d welcome any insights and strategies for using this ship more effectively in combat, as well as any opinions, observations or anything else you'd like to discuss concerning the Orz Nemesis.

And you probably know what’s coming next… I plan on putting up a pair of AI-controlled Nemesis ships against entire fleets of AI-controlled ships, recording the results, and sharing my findings with the “rest of the class.” But why should I get to have all of the fun? If you feel so inclined, please feel free to write a review of your own experiments and/or experiences when using the Orz Nemesis in battle! Ok everybody... “Go! Go!”

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:58 pm 
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The Nemesis is mainly good against: 1) your allies and 2) ships your flagship trumps decisively. In PVP, it's solid. In story, there is around one case I find it really useful for, and you already bypassed it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:25 am 
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Well, it works fairly nicely against Dreadnoughts. It is all a matter of releasing the marines at the right position.
For general tactics, however, all I can say for turret management is practice. Lots and lots of practice, until you can reliably turn the turret mid-combat to take advantage of its properties.
In the beginning, I'd advise aligning it to a rear-firing position and using it akin to the Spathi's B.U.T.T. launcher. Much like the Eluder, the Nemesis is best if it is being chased, not only because the howitzer needs the added range from the movement to be effective in any real manner, but primarily because the enemy will have a much harder time avoiding your marines, which are further improved if launched through a gravity well. Once you get a better hang of it, you can start to use the turret -and, through that, the ship- more flexibly.

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"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:18 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Death 999 wrote:
In story, there is around one case I find it really useful for, and you already bypassed it.
Is it something I haven't encountered or done yet, or perhaps were you referring to the VUX?

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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:14 pm 
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I mean, you already have a flagship that is sufficiently overwhelmingly powerful that there's no point in using the Nemesis for that fight.


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:10 pm 
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The Troglodyte wrote:
Death 999 wrote:
In story, there is around one case I find it really useful for, and you already bypassed it.
Is it something I haven't encountered or done yet, or perhaps were you referring to the VUX?
Death 999 wrote:
I mean, you already have a flagship that is sufficiently overwhelmingly powerful that there's no point in using the Nemesis for that fight.

Ok, I thought that was probably what you meant; I was also thinking it would have been useful for the Dreadnought around Unzervalt, but it was proven unnecessary for the same reasons you’ve already mentioned.

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:59 pm 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And how appropriate for our first “ORZ NEMESIS COMBAT SIMULATION” participant to be none other than the mysteriously missing Androsynth! We sent in our chief reporter to get the Orz’s thoughts on this upcoming match-up, and here’s what the Orz spokesman said in reply…

ORZ - "Androsynth are not here. Orz are here. You are not the same too much like Androsynth. You are *happy campers*. Do you want to see our surprising *toys*? No!! Do Not!! Androsynth are so silly. We do not *tell stories* a lot about them. No more Androsynth *stories*."

2 AWESOME CYBORG ORZ NEMESES (2 x 23 = 46 pts.)
VS.
14 AWESOME CYBORG ANDROSYNTH GUARDIANS (14 x 15 = 210 pts.)


ORZ GETS 1 KILL WORTH 15 POINTS.

ANALYSIS: There will certainly be no more Orz *stories* today. The Nemesis was completely outmatched and the Orz knew it. Their only course of action was to release as many Space Marines as possible while trying to keep a distance from the Guardian. However, as soon as the first marine was coming within several meters of the *silly* Androsynth, the vessel immediately collapsed its hull into Blazer form and zoomed away, taking it only a few brief moments before it began throttling and ramming from behind the now-understaffed Nemesis that could only helplessly try to defend itself with a couple of Cannon shots before its destruction. Then...Androsynth are here...Orz are not here. Even with the second Orz getting a kill with the first Blazer running out of power, it definitely makes me think that the Orz must've had some kind of sneaky IDF trick up their sleeve to accomplish whatever they supposedly did to the Androsynth -- they probably couldn't take them on in a straight up dog fight...or rather, fish fight!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


Last edited by The Troglodyte on Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:23 pm 
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Yehat Revolutionist
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The Troglodyte wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And how appropriate for our first “ORZ NEMESIS COMBAT SIMULATION” participant to be none other than the mysteriously missing Androsynth! We sent in our chief reporter to get the Orz’s thoughts on this upcoming match-up, and here’s what the Orz spokesman said in reply…

ORZ - "Androsynth are not here. Orz are here. You are not the same too much like Androsynth. You are *happy campers*. Do you want to see our surprising *toys*? No!! Do Not!! Androsynth are so silly. We do not *tell stories* a lot about them. No more Androsynth *stories*."

2 AWESOME CYBORG ORZ NEMESES (2 x 23 = 46 pts.)
VS.
14 AWESOME CYBORG ANDROSYNTH GUARDIANS (14 x 15 = 210 pts.)


ORZ GETS 1 KILL WORTH 15 POINTS.

ANALYSIS: There will certainly be no more Orz *stories* today. The Nemesis was completely outmatched and the Orz knew it. Their only course of action was to release as many Space Marines as possible while trying to keep a distance from the Guardian. However, as soon as the first marine was coming within several meters of the *silly* Androsynth, the vessel immediately collapsed its hull into Blazer form and zoomed away, taking it only a few brief moments before it began throttling and ramming from behind the now-understaffed Nemesis that could only helplessly try to defend itself with a couple of Cannon shots before its destruction. Then...Androsynth are here...Orz are not here. Even with the second Orz getting a kill with the first Blazer running out of power, it definitely makes me think that the Orz must've had some kind of sneaky IDF trick up their sleeve to accomplish whatever they supposedly did to the Orz -- they probably couldn't take them on in a straight up dog fight...or rather, fish fight!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you ask me, what you found on the Androsynth *adopted playground* suggests that the space-front was bypassed altogether in favor of something like a direct ground war, where the Guardian's advantages would be rendered irrelevant.
Still, " Orz had a sneaky IDF trick to accomplish what they did to Orz"? You might want to correct that sentence.

_________________
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:03 am 
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For all we know, both versions could be correct...


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 Post subject: Re: The Orz Nemesis
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Quasispatial wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:
…the Orz must've had some kind of sneaky IDF trick up their sleeve to accomplish whatever they supposedly did to the Orz --

" Orz had a sneaky IDF trick to accomplish what they did to Orz"? You might want to correct that sentence.

New theory. They pulled a sneaky IDF trick… on themselves! Any takers? No? Ok, I fix it.

Quasispatial wrote:
If you ask me, what you found on the Androsynth *adopted playground* suggests that the space-front was bypassed altogether in favor of something like a direct ground war, where the Guardian's advantages would be rendered irrelevant.
Death 999 wrote:
For all we know, both versions could be correct...

Interesting, so I’m assuming there’s no concrete evidence to support either of these theories definitively? That’s fascinating. Perhaps when the Orz learned about the Androsynth and how to *slide* into our dimension, they did so using a military strategy in mind.

It reminds me of a Star Trek: TNG episode called “Contagion”, where the crew of the Enterprise discovers advanced technology left behind by a once powerful but now dead empire, which is capable of transporting people instantaneously over great distances, light years of travel accomplished by merely walking through a door!

What if the Orz technology allows them to do something similar when they travel between the two dimensions? They could appear on the surface and inside the buildings, their ships could appear out of nowhere, with Space Marines having already arrived a few moments earlier, inside each ship of the Guardian fleet!

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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