The Orz Nemesis

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Death 999
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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Death 999 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:45 pm

Also, a marine gets one guaranteed hit the moment it boards. So, if an opponent is down to one life, a marine doesn't face the risk of being killed on-board. If you can get two marines on in short succession, the first has little chance to die if the opponent was down to two.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:02 pm

Death 999 wrote:Also, a marine gets one guaranteed hit the moment it boards. So, if an opponent is down to one life, a marine doesn't face the risk of being killed on-board. If you can get two marines on in short succession, the first has little chance to die if the opponent was down to two.
That brings up the manner of which the game mechanics employs and carries out different tasks as it pertains to how a marine operates once aboard and killing an enemy ship's crew -- specifically, how is the hostile attack invasion implemented to determine a marine's lifespan, ability to inflict damage, and at which time interval damage occurs? Is it all randomized? (And in what way?) If so, could a single marine destroy an entire dreadnought if it were "lucky" enough? And could it inflict said damage in rapid intervals, or is the time sequence at which a marine inflicts damage already predetermined? Also, is there anything else that may be pertinent about space marine game mechanics I may be overlooking?
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Ogo3142 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:50 am

The Troglodyte wrote:how is the hostile attack invasion implemented to determine a marine's lifespan, ability to inflict damage, and at which time interval damage occurs? Is it all randomized? (And in what way?)
It's just pseudo-random numbers. Nothing complicated.
If so, could a single marine destroy an entire dreadnought if it were "lucky" enough?
Yeah, theoretically, but since the PRNG is technically predictable, I don't know if it could ever actually happen.
And could it inflict said damage in rapid intervals, or is the time sequence at which a marine inflicts damage already predetermined?
The interval of checks is fixed. What's random is whether at any particular moment the marine dies, nothing happens, or one of the invaded ship's crew dies.

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Death 999
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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Death 999 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:28 pm


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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:17 pm

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My mission will likely be taking me into Ur-Quan territory soon, so I should try to prepare to be ready for anything, and therefore, it would only be prudent to put my pair of Orz ships through combat simulation against Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts, but I began wondering... how would've the first encounter with the Orz and Ur-Quan sounded like?

Ur-Quan - "We are the Ur-Quan. Your vessel does not configure with standard Hierarchy identification transmissions and has been deemed... independent. This is not permissible -- only subservience shall be tolerated. You will be assimilated. Existence, as you know it, is over. Your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile. Blah blah blah."

Orz - "You are not Orz! You are Ur-Quan. We are Orz! You are not independent. We are not independent! Orz *fingers* is only dependent on *slippery places,* but not always. You are too *silly*! Silly like *frumple* Androsynth and even sillier than the VUX, those *silly cows*! You are...are...*silly brontosaurus's*!"

2 Awesome Cyborg Orz Nemeses (2 x 23 = 46 points)
Vs.
14 Awesome Cyborg Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts (14 x 30 = 420 points)
Orz gets 2 kills worth 60 points!

ANALYSIS:
Unfortunately, the computer is much better at rapid-launching its Space Marine than actually avoiding the Ur-Quan's Fusion Bolts, since the Nemesis Captain must have spent too much time imbibing at *parties* and didn't realize how foolish it is to attempt to take on a Dreadnought head-on! The Ur-Quan spent the entire battle trying to suppress the Orz intruders while blasting away at the Nemesis as they tried to get in range for their Howitzer Cannon, which didn’t work out too well.
2 The Troglodyte-controlled Orz Nemeses
Vs.
14 Awesome Cyrborg Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts
I got 5 kills worth 150 points!

ANALYSIS:
The only difference in my strategy was to keep my distance as I deployed the marines, and the Ur-Quan would launch several sets of Fighters, but I kept good distance from those as well. The Marines did quite well, but the Dreadnought ships house a large crew, which was difficult for the Space Marines to subdue, and the Ur-Quan would also fire upon any marine attempting to board the ship, and it could usually stave off a few from time to time as they arrived. After I was down to a sparse crew, I could usually do some more damage, but an eventual mistake meant certain death for my relentless Orz.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Alvarin » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:37 pm

My best method of using an Orz against AI Ur-Quan was to point the howitzer backwards and clear the fighters, some with projectiles, others with asteroids. Refrained from using my marines till Dreadnought was very low on crew and even then, just hitting chasing target was more reliable.
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Death 999
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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Death 999 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:58 am

Spathi spathi spathi against AI-flown Quan of either flavor...

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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Quasispatial » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:36 pm

Alvarin wrote:clear the fighters, some with projectiles, others with asteroids.
That is pretty much the standard AI exploit for defeating Dreadnoughts. Personally, I try to avoid it, as I feel that it does not give an accurate representation of the vessel's real capability in the hands of your average player.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:36 pm

Quasispatial wrote:
Alvarin wrote:clear the fighters, some with projectiles, others with asteroids.
That is pretty much the standard AI exploit for defeating Dreadnoughts. Personally, I try to avoid it, as I feel that it does not give an accurate representation of the vessel's real capability in the hands of your average player.
Huh, it's pretty funny when you think about that way. I can picture it all now...

(dream harp gliss effect)

Ur-Quan Captain - "Launch Fighters!"

(a few moments later)

Subordinate Bwinkin (a Spathi) - "The fighters have been destroyed, sir."

Ur-Quan Captain - "Uh...ok. I guess, launch some more!"

(a few more moments later)

Subordinate Bwinkin (timidly) - "Uh, sir? The other fighters have been destroyed."

Ur-Quan Captain - "Grrrr! Well, then...LAUNCH MORE FIGHTERS!!!"

Subordinate Bwinkin - "Well, I guess that means I'll be going now. See ya later...I hope!"
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Quasispatial » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:00 am

The Troglodyte wrote:
Quasispatial wrote:
Alvarin wrote:clear the fighters, some with projectiles, others with asteroids.
That is pretty much the standard AI exploit for defeating Dreadnoughts. Personally, I try to avoid it, as I feel that it does not give an accurate representation of the vessel's real capability in the hands of your average player.
Huh, it's pretty funny when you think about that way. I can picture it all now...

(dream harp gliss effect)

Ur-Quan Captain - "Launch Fighters!"

(a few moments later)

Subordinate Bwinkin (a Spathi) - "The fighters have been destroyed, sir."

Ur-Quan Captain - "Uh...ok. I guess, launch some more!"

(a few more moments later)

Subordinate Bwinkin (timidly) - "Uh, sir? The other fighters have been destroyed."

Ur-Quan Captain - "Grrrr! Well, then...LAUNCH MORE FIGHTERS!!!"

Subordinate Bwinkin - "Well, I guess that means I'll be going now. See ya later...I hope!"
Haha yeah, it is pretty funny when you think about it like that. Doesn't stop it from feeling like cheating though. Killing the fighters off one by one is too cheap - in truth, I think they should be handled more as a defensive weapon against fast ships. Launch fighters, force the attacker to evade or be hit. The fighters are just part of the fun when you take a Skiff and see how many Dreadnoughts you can kill before you die; the fusion blasts are not nearly as dangerous alone as they are when a fighter swarm is restricting your movement options. The Ur-Quan use them offensively and, well, look how that turned out.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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