A thought on the slaveshield.

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TSC
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by TSC » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:54 pm

Angelfish wrote:I know what headcanon is, I just wanted to point out how stupid and overused/abused that word is :P.
Also, I don't think word of god is canon. Once a game is complete, anything else that is said by the creators after it is not canon, unless it's meant as a sequel to the story.

Well, you know a better word? You can think any old word is stupid. I happen to know about an individual who just hates the word 'naive' with a vengeance.

As for Word of God... I see it as more tentative.

It kind of depends. If Word of God contradicts the Work, The Work takes precedence. (Though a creator could write a sequel retconning something in the work. (Which more often works poorly then well, but it can work. (And either way they can DO it.)

If Word of God answer a question that's irrelevant to the larger work, but just neat to know, you can pretty much treat it as de-facto canon. (I guess the best go-to example of something like that is Dumbledore's sexual orientation. (Whatever hints to it there are in the books are so few and so incredibly vague they really might as well be non-existant.)

If Word of God is about a possible sequel, it's really just an idea that MIGHT end up in the sequel or that might change over the drafts inbetween. Hence, tentative.

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Draxas
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by Draxas » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:36 pm

Been meaning to mention this, so this seems to be as good a place as any:

TSC, it is quite clear to me that TV Tropes Has Ruined Your Life. However, this may not be the case with everyone on this board, so liberally bandying about trope terms without explaining them is bound to confuse those of us who have not also had our Lives Ruined, especially when you consider that English is not the native language of more then a few folks on this board.

Just a friendly reminder, carry on.

TSC
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by TSC » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:29 pm

I think with the google machine being broadly available, any old term I could choose to bandy could easily be looked up if someone was interested. Or they could just ask me. I don't bite. I'm in fact quite friendly most of the time!

Also Canon as a term WAY predates TV tropes (And in fact the interwebz). And the whole Word of God thing I think at this point is commonly used in most fandoms even if it DID came from TV tropes.

So if someone doesn't know it, I think I'm really just enriching their internet english vocab. And if it leads them to TV tropes, which is actually pretty interesting, in exploring the concept of the components within a story, that too might be a nice favour.

So...

If you wish to pay tribute to me for such a service, I take all valuables. XD

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Death 999
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by Death 999 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:10 pm

Word of God is from before TVTropes.

Anyway, the slave shield extends a noticeable way out from the planet. It could snag all the solar energy that passes through the part of the shield that does not shadow the planet.

Also, I think the Ur-Quan were perfectly capable of invention both during the Dnyarri takeover and after, as Kzer-Za.

TSC
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by TSC » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:45 pm

Death 999 wrote:Word of God is from before TVTropes.

Anyway, the slave shield extends a noticeable way out from the planet. It could snag all the solar energy that passes through the part of the shield that does not shadow the planet.

Also, I think the Ur-Quan were perfectly capable of invention both during the Dnyarri takeover and after, as Kzer-Za.
True, the Kzer-Za where bred for research and development.

But why reinvent the wheel? Why would they NOT work on already existing Milieu tech?

After all the Ur-Quan STARTED as the Milieu's Shofixti equivalent.

When the Kzer-Za where bred to be scientists, I'm sure they developped new stuff, but they wouldn't have had to develop stuff the Milieu already had. (And the Milieu would have had some stuff.)

I guess you really can't tell which is which. But to me the appeal of having some milieu species have specialties is to gives more of a hint of the Milieu's diversity.

I also like the idea myself that the Ur-Quan's modern ships, both giant battleship types. Are sort of spiritual decendants of the ships of the two most powerful pre-Dnyarri Milieu members, but modified for Ur-Quan needs and tastes.

There's no reason why it'd have to be that way, it just could and I think it's appealing. Shows more historical roots for the Quans.

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Alvarin
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by Alvarin » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:23 pm

The reason to not work on Milieu's technologies and "reinvent the wheel" is it will be incompatible with anything. With very few exceptions (Portal spawner), there is no intra-racial technological merge in-game, only complete products (from Melnorme).
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TSC
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by TSC » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:40 pm

How so?

The Milieu existed for centuries.

They'd build universal plugs for their power sources sooner or later.

Also technological principles are based on science. Doesn't matter of a Taalo, a Yuli or a Kzer-Za Ur-Quan looks over the science. The scientific method is the same.

Also species CAN reverse engineer eachothers technology. (See the Spathi slaveshield. (Or the Chmmr (And Chenjesu!) ability to crack slaveshields.)

So the Kzer-Za almost certainly WOULD have some experience with general Milieu technology.

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Death 999
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by Death 999 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:53 pm

I would more say, 'It's been thousands of years. Why would they NOT have upgraded a lot?'

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Alvarin
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by Alvarin » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:56 am

TSC wrote:How so?

The Milieu existed for centuries.

They'd build universal plugs for their power sources sooner or later.

Also technological principles are based on science. Doesn't matter of a Taalo, a Yuli or a Kzer-Za Ur-Quan looks over the science. The scientific method is the same.

Also species CAN reverse engineer eachothers technology. (See the Spathi slaveshield. (Or the Chmmr (And Chenjesu!) ability to crack slaveshields.)

So the Kzer-Za almost certainly WOULD have some experience with general Milieu technology.
Scientific principals are, indeed, the same. Practical manifestation of such a technology is another thing altogether.
Reverse engineering the slaveshield is understanding the principle, not the actual building of the product.
Cracking it is unrelated at all, simply a matter of safely pumping in enough energy, which everyone lacked previously.
To be angry is to punish yourself for the errors of others.

TSC
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Re: A thought on the slaveshield.

Post by TSC » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:28 pm

Alvarin wrote:
TSC wrote:How so?

The Milieu existed for centuries.

They'd build universal plugs for their power sources sooner or later.

Also technological principles are based on science. Doesn't matter of a Taalo, a Yuli or a Kzer-Za Ur-Quan looks over the science. The scientific method is the same.

Also species CAN reverse engineer eachothers technology. (See the Spathi slaveshield. (Or the Chmmr (And Chenjesu!) ability to crack slaveshields.)

So the Kzer-Za almost certainly WOULD have some experience with general Milieu technology.
Scientific principals are, indeed, the same. Practical manifestation of such a technology is another thing altogether.
Reverse engineering the slaveshield is understanding the principle, not the actual building of the product.
Cracking it is unrelated at all, simply a matter of safely pumping in enough energy, which everyone lacked previously.

If you fully understand the scientific principles behind a technology, the only thing that could hamper you from building your own is lacking the ability to manufacture it.

But if you fully understand the principles behind the technology in question, it's just a matter of time before that knowledge leads you to the knowledge on how one WOULD go about manufacturing it.

In addition the Kzer-Za in the slave empire would have access to all Milieu records, including manufacturing instructions. They'd have access to the records of all Milieu races and thus info on how they did everything they did.

So why wouldn't the Kzer-Za just nab whatever they found useful and modify the rest? It doesn't inhibit them from creating their own technologies. But they could have taken older technologies as well.

Again remember, when the Ur-Quan where conquered they where not very advanced. They where the youngest most primitive Milieu member flying little scout ships. And being under the wing of the Taalo.

I made the analogue to the Shofixti. (And in that sense the Taalo where the Quans Yehat.) So lets say someone psychically enslaved the Alliance then bred the Shofixti for new purposes and gave the Shofixti scientist drones access to all Alliance technological databases.

That's how I see it happened with the Kzer-Za.

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