Fwiffo & the StarRunner

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Tiberian
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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by Tiberian » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:19 pm

But the Earthguard force isn't founded yet. The year when Fwiffo selected the short Ta-Puun stick and was left alone on Pluto was something like 2150 I think. So don't worry if Fwiffo is not down there, everything can still be canon. There's still a few months time to start the nuclear war in Middle-East as well.
Author of Star Control novelizations Groombridge Log and Eternal Doctrine. www.tommisalminenbooks.com

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The Troglodyte
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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by The Troglodyte » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:20 pm

Angelfish wrote:I'm curious if the New Horizons probe will discover Fwiffo's Eluder today :D.
Tiberian wrote:But the Earthguard force isn't founded yet. The year when Fwiffo selected the short Ta-Puun stick and was left alone on Pluto was something like 2150 I think. So don't worry if Fwiffo is not down there, everything can still be canon. There's still a few months time to start the nuclear war in Middle-East as well.
...Or perhaps we'll find some exotic minerals like Tzo Crystals, or maybe some Precursor dataplates in a cave! New Horizons is awesome.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by Alvarin » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:00 pm

Tiberian wrote:But the Earthguard force isn't founded yet. The year when Fwiffo selected the short Ta-Puun stick and was left alone on Pluto was something like 2150 I think. So don't worry if Fwiffo is not down there, everything can still be canon. There's still a few months time to start the nuclear war in Middle-East as well.
Iranian nuclear "deal" was signed today and Israel isn't too happy. I'd say we might well be on our way...
To be angry is to punish yourself for the errors of others.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:39 pm

On a separate note, the Voyager probe just exited a wormhole and collided with the starboard side of the Mmrnmhrm Mother Ark, which smudged some of its letters, so it now reads: "V###GER".
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:52 pm

Draxas wrote:You can see them. They pull random levers in time with the captain's inputs in order to make it look like they're important to the functioning of the ship.
I see, it's all just an attempt to boost the poor Spathi's self-esteem!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by Tormuse » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:49 pm

(Incoming analysis of SC1 ships) :)

I've always felt that the traditional Hierarchy ships from SC1 suffer from a lack of maneuverability. The Spathi Eluder is the only ship they have that is naturally fast. (Not including speed from special abilities like the Umgah's backward zipping or the Androsynth's comet form) Compare that to the Alliance which has the Shofixti Scout, Arilou Skiff, Syreen Penetrator, Mrhnmrhm (sp?) X-Form, (in it's fast form) and Yehat Terminator. The Alliance is mostly made up of fast ships! This disparity is exacerbated by the fact that many of the Hierarchy ships have short range weapons. Being slow with short ranged weapons is a bad combination and it means that even a lowly Shofixti scout can take out a fleet of Vux Intruders and Ilwrath Avengers by flying ahead of them and shooting them from outside their weapons' range. Honestly, in my view, it's a wonder the Ur-Quan won the war!

EDIT: tl;dr: The Spathi Eluder is arguably the most effective ship in the Ur-Quan Hierarchy.

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by Quasispatial » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:55 am

Meh, the Hierarchy, Ur-Quan in particular, is obviously built more for planetary siege. When it comes to raw firepower, they are stronger by far, and stationary targets (space stations, planets, ect) can't exactly dodge them. Besides, the Hierarchy's disadvantage stems much from the "1v1" method of the game - when there are lots of things firing at your general direction, being fast won't get you very far (Arilou being the exception that proves the rule; stubborn teleporties), and having a large fleet would merely make it easier for the Alliance's enemies to hit something. In short, one would say that, in a more realistic combat setting, the Alliance seems to be built more for dealing with a large amount of smaller skirmishes, hit-and-run attacks and the like, whilst the Hierarchy want larger fleet clashes and a more direct form of warfare revolving around raw firepower.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by Death 999 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Tormuse, the problem is, if you put short-ranged not-very-fast ships on opposite sides, they're going to end up just flying in and bouncing off of each other. At least when you have fast vs slow, you don't end up with fights like that.

The drone, avenger, and intruder really are very different ships, with very different ways of engaging fast enemies.

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by Quasispatial » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Indeed, Death999. The Avenger's hard to dodge simply by merit of being hard to find - you'd end up with "poor tactical positioning" sooner or later. Drone's very short-range, but the reversing speed allows for deadly ambushes. Intruder, that's got a good range for a close-combat ship, jumps in adjacently and lacks a projectile delay, leaving its target with no chance to dodge. Eluder takes advantage of the enemy's speed - faster ships have less time to react to the B.U.T.T.s, especially the Y-form of the Transformer ship. The Dreadnought has its fighters, which are equipped with lasers lacking time delay, and since the swift ships cannot simply be foolish enough to fly into the fighter screen (unless they want to die swiftly), they have to stay at range, being continuously bombarded by the green vessel's fusion blasts. Mycon, pretty useless against swift ships -well, most ships really- until they manage to pull off a gravity whip, but once they do they're fairly capable. Androsynth's acid bubbles are unpredictable and homing, making them a pain to navigate through, and it can always blazer if its enemy comes too close. Then we have the Torch, which doesn't count as it was left behind to "guard the flank". In short, all of them can combat swift ships, given appropriate tactics. The Ur-Quan are not as helpless as you might think.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Re: Fwiffo & the StarRunner

Post by The Troglodyte » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:23 pm

I think this has many different perspectives coming into play here, so I’m trying to look at this from many different angles. It’s difficult for me to judge the Spathi and put them into any particular ‘slot’ as it relates to the rest of the Hierarchy, the Alliance, and the war. They are truly a wild card.

On one hand, as well-rounded as the Spathi Eluder is, other ships have their own unique qualities which give them advantages versus certain Alliance ships. As mentioned before, this is also drastically compounded when you take into account the historical description of the war, where thinking about a fleet of cloaked Ilwraths facing a fleet of Chenjesu is a far different thing than 1 Avenger vs. 1 Broodhome. There’s also the Spathi’s cowardly disposition when considering their actual involvement in the war, whereas the Ilwrath will willingly fight "tooth and mandible", while the Spathi would rather hide in their shells (perhaps literally?). Furthermore, it would seem the main reason the Ur-Quan won the war was their ability to overrun the Alliance with numbers; their battle thralls may have been mostly utilized to keep the Free Stars busy while they amassed their Dreadnoughts for a final onslaught.

However, strictly speaking purely from a SC1 point of view, when you're playing as the Hierarchy, the early options of Umgah, Ilwrath, and Vux are most useful for early development, and afterward best used offensively when the match-up benefits them. Once an Eluder (or Discriminator for us SC1 old-schoolers) is built, a skilled pilot can really abuse the AI from that point on, especially if you have colonies to replenish any crew losses. From that point of view, the Spathi could have very well been the "linchpin" for winning the war. So depending on your preference for "writing history" when playing the SC1 campaigns, you can make some of your own determinations based on how you implement your strategy. I myself usually waited until I could buy enough Podships and Dreadnoughts to overpower the Alliance, which is ironically similar to how Hayes describes parts of the war.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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