About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

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Elestan
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Elestan » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:09 am

The Troglodyte wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:00 am
I also find it curious why the Druuge wouldn’t even throw out an offer for another Deep Children Egg for one of these worthless trinkets. I guess 2 is all they need.
If you could sell off all of your Egg Casings, you could render the game unwinnable.
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Captain’s Log – Mar 3, 2158 – Zeta Hyades VI – Red Alert

We made our way to the system and headed immediately for the bomb planet. But then, as we entered orbit of the planet...
Uh-oh! I wasn't expecting to see the Druuge all the way out here… let alone 5 Druuge Mauler warships! This can’t be good! Captain out.
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Note: I recommend preserving a permanent temporal checkpoint prior to engaging in this combat.

krulle
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:38 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:00 am
And what’s the deal with the word ‘annihilate’? Since I’ve begun this crazy journey, that word has been fumbled through on more than one occasion by more than one person. Is there some dialogue reference I may have missed?
You've met the Kohr-Ah, right?
And I am horribly bad in pronouncing and spelling that agnihidestruction word.

How often have you talked to the Kohr-Ah in this timeline?

And no, you've most likely not missed "some dialogue reference" yet.
if it's a reference, it is a non-canon reference.
Opposed to the quote in Death 999's profile on UQM (the one partly used by President Obama's election campaign).


Also good luck evading the high-speed bullets.
I loved using a Fury or a Skiff to lure them to throw their crew into the fire, and then hunted them down.
But the Cruiser also proved quite efficient, keep a small profile (pointing in their direction), preferably in the "dead angles", and keep good use of the surprising high turning rate of the Terran Cruiser.

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Quasispatial
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Quasispatial » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:11 pm

For engaging the Maulers, aside from the aforementioned vessels, a Terminator also works quite well for soaking up shots due to its shields. Someone quick on the shield trigger can block and dodge the projectiles until the Druuge have missed/wasted enough shots to cease being a threat, but it does require some fair skill in the art of timing.

The Torch is, as always, overpowered, so that would do the trick too. As would the Nemesis, given that you're able to keep it out of harm's way long enough for its boarders to do their job.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Draxas
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Draxas » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:01 pm

Everyone who has ever met them, even briefly, knows that the A word is the Kohr-Ah most favoritest word in the entire universe. Think about the kind of stress their talking pets must be under, having to not bungle up the pronunciation so frequently.

As for the Druuge, well... Let's just say that if it weren't already eminently obvious, you are about to find out just exactly what sort of people they are.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:46 pm

Yeah, the talks with the Kohr-Ah were part of my favourite conversations. So many memorable quotes.
If they wouldn't always end in having to fight the single most annoying opponent ship (at least it always was for me).

Also I think "cleansing" and "to cleanse" are actually the favourite words of the Kohr-Ah.
Used in the same context, though.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Draxas » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:04 pm

krulle wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:46 pm
Also I think "cleansing" and "to cleanse" are actually the favourite words of the Kohr-Ah.
Used in the same context, though.
It's a pretty close contest, to be fair. At the end of the day, though, still bad news for whoever they might be talking to.

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Death 999
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Death 999 » Wed May 01, 2019 2:46 pm

Eh, if you have a good Vindicator all it means is 375 RU.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Thu May 02, 2019 12:55 am

Elestan wrote:
If you could sell off all of your Egg Casings, you could render the game unwinnable.

[...]

Note: I recommend preserving a permanent temporal checkpoint prior to engaging in this combat.

A good point, followed by a nice suggestion!

krulle wrote:
Troglodyte wrote:And what’s the deal with the word ‘annihilate’?
You've met the Kohr-Ah, right?
And I am horribly bad in pronouncing and spelling that agnihidestruction word.

How often have you talked to the Kohr-Ah in this timeline?

And no, you've most likely not missed "some dialogue reference" yet.
Draxas wrote:Everyone who has ever met them, even briefly, knows that the A word is the Kohr-Ah most favoritest word in the entire universe. Think about the kind of stress their talking pets must be under, having to not bungle up the pronunciation so frequently.

I don’t follow. Here’s all of the dialogue I’ve recorded from the Kohr-Ah thus far, and I’ve never seen them use the word “annihilate” (or weird misspellings of it) even once:

(1st Encounter - In HyperSpace)
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KOHR-AH - “We are the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah. We cleanse our destiny. You will soon die. Make whatever rituals are necessary for your species.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “If you attack us, we will destroy you. Don’t even try it.”

KOHR-AH - “Over five thousand races have made such a claim. We survived. They did not. Nor shall you.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
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CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?”

KOHR-AH - “THE WORDS!… the Words… the words… Alien, you have spoken the Words. You have spoken them rightly. We will explain to you about the Dnyarri, our slavemasters… the Taalo, our only friends… whom we exterminated… and our reasons why we cleanse the galaxy of all other sentient life. We have explained this before, over twenty thousand years ago. Your words, ‘Why do you do this thing?’ echo that ancient plea. You see, alien, we were a proud and mighty race, who we cruelly enslaved. For thousands of years, we had no free will. We were nothing more than tools. Never again will anyone enslave our people. We cleanse the galaxy of such threats.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Kohr-Ah, tell us about yourselves.”

KOHR-AH - “We evolved on a hostile world, the descendants of solitary hunters. In a world where one species is the dominant killer… one’s only threat is one’s brother, one’s sister, anyone of one’s species. Civilization did not come easily to us, we earned it. We mastered our hatreds and murderous desires to form a mighty culture. In those ancient days, there was no Kohr-Ah or Kzer-Za, only the Ur-Quan. We explored our world, and then the space beyond. Here we met the six races of the Sentient Milieu… here we met the Taalo… the only species we ever called ‘friend’. Our association with the Taalo and the Milieu lasted for three thousand years. We, the Ur-Quan who could not tolerate the presence of others... became the Milieu’s scouts, their solitary explorers.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Who were the Taalo?”

KOHR-AH - “Of all the species we have met, only the Taalo did not trigger our instinctive territoriality. They were the only people we could stand with, or talk to, without the hunter inside us screaming… ‘Kill the interloper! Rip out its life!’ We believe that the same factors that made the Taalo non-threatening to us… their unusual biology… also gave the Taalo natural immunity to the Dnyarri’s psychic compulsion. The Dnyarri would not permit this. After they had conquered all six of the other races in the Milieu… they commanded us to attack the Taalo and we did. The Taalo would not fight back… they died.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Who or what are the Dnyarri?”

KOHR-AH - “It was on a routine planetfall that one of our Milieu scoutships first met the Dnyarri… the creatures you know as our Talking Pets. But the Dnyarri were different then. They were evilly intelligent and wielded psychic powers to control the minds of others. They wanted to rule the universe. We had no choice but to give it to them. Our Ur-Quan scoutships transported the Dnyarri through the Milieu. The war for dominance, such as it was, was quick and bloodless. Within weeks, the Dnyarri controlled all races but one… the Taalo.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “How did you defeat the Dnyarri?”

KOHR-AH - “For thousands of years, we were unthinking slaves to the Dnyarri. Like the five other surviving races of the old Milieu, we had no choice. The Dnyarri’s compulsion was too strong to resist. But the Dnyarri were not satisfied with their slave races. The Yuli and the Drall were inferior, they decided… and so they instructed us to incinerate their worlds, and we did. The Dnyarri had a special liking for us Ur-Quan… so they began to tinker with our genes… to improve us, their favored slaves. Their efforts split the Ur-Quan into two sub-races… The Green Ur-Quan, effete scientists and bureaucrats… and the Black Ur-Quan, their Effectuators, the builders, the fighters, the doers. The Kohr-Ah are the Black Ur-Quan. The Kzer-Za are the Green. I grow tired of talking, alien, and your time grows short. I will continue for but a moment longer. When we discovered that intense pain could block the Dnyarri’s mental powers… we were able to destroy them, but it took years. Can you imagine, alien, what it must have been like to wear an Excruciator? To live in endless screaming pain for months on end? No you cannot.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “I guess that’s it. Thanks for the info. We’ll just leave now.”

KOHR-AH - “No, it is not. There is more you must hear. When the war was over, the great Kohr-Ah rose from our ranks… and declared the Path of Now and Forever. We would cleanse the galaxy. No one would ever threaten the Ur-Quan this way again. We had cleansed one of the three remaining Milieu races and were in orbit around a second’s homeworld. From the surface came a plea… identical to the words you spoke a few moments ago. The one-eyed creatures, the Mael-Num, asked so simply, so clearly… that we felt compelled to explain. While we did so, the Kzer-Za appeared. They would not permit us to destroy, they said. Enslave, yes. Imprison, yes. But never destroy. The moment was tense. Someone opened fire. The first Doctrinal War had begun. While we fought, the Mael-Num escaped. We never found them again. When our battle was done, we, the Kohr-Ah, were defeated… however, the Kzer-Za let us go. We were exiled. We travelled through space, rebuilt the strength of our battle fleets… and continued our plan, to cleanse from the galaxy, for all Ur-Quan. You have heard our words, and perhaps you understand us a bit better. But now, it is time for us to cleanse you.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “What are you hanging over?”

KOHR-AH - “My trophy bone-pit. In here is one skeleton from each of the races which I personally exterminated. I fondle these bones and recall the fine cleansing. Perhaps your bones will grace this pit momentarily… unless they are accidentally vaporized.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
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CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Please don’t destroy this ship. We mean you no harm!”

KOHR-AH - “In the twenty thousand years of our Mission… we have heard more pleas for mercy than you can possibly imagine. Civilizations which saw their doom before them called upon their geniuses to calm us… to no avail.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
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CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “I’ve heard enough of your madness for now. Goodbye.”

KOHR-AH - “Before we destroy other thinking beings we share with them this comforting fact… This life of yours… which shall end immediately following this statement… is but one of many lives you will live. Perhaps, in your next incarnation… you will be born an Ur-Quan.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
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(2nd Encounter)

KOHR-AH - “We are the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah. Your presence here is premature. We fight the Kzer-Za for supremacy of Doctrine… and possession of the Sa-Matra. When the battle is won, our task is simple. We cleanse. You are the filth.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Resistance is useless. Our victory is inevitable!”

KOHR-AH - “It is not.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “You sure are creepy.”

KOHR-AH - “Seeing that I represent your imminent death… as well as the termination of your entire species… I think your fear is well justified. Nonetheless, you require cleansing.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “If you let us go, we’ll tell you a big secret!”

KOHR-AH - “We are self-sufficient. We need nothing. We want nothing… beyond the total destruction of all non-Ur-Quan sentience.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3rd Encounter)

KOHR-AH - “We are the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah. You have evaded our attempts to cleanse. You are no longer filth. You are a threat. Threats deserve greater attention than filth.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “You have attacked us before, and we survived! You cannot defeat us. Submit!”

KOHR-AH - “We did. You did. Yes we can. No.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Stop that gross blinking!”

KOHR-AH - “The time has come. You require cleansing.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Don’t attack us! We are not your enemies!”

KOHR-AH - “You are right. You are not our enemy. We have NO enemy… beyond the Kzer-Za, our partners in the eternal conflict. You are simply… a spore, a seed. Today you are nothing… insignificant. But if allowed to bloom and grow someday… someday, you might represent a threat to our freedom and security. So we cleanse.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
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(4th Encounter)

KOHR-AH - “We are the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah. Our nature, the fulfillment of our fate… requires your destruction.”

CAPTAIN ZELNICK - “Surrender or die.”

KOHR-AH - “Our counter to your statement is simpler… just ‘die’.” (Kohr-Ah attacks)
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(5th Encounter - same)
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See? It’s true there’s every possible variation of the word ‘cleanse’, but not a single ‘annihilate’. I’m beginning to get the feeling that there’s some inside joke I’m unaware of.

krulle wrote:Also good luck evading the high-speed bullets.
I loved using a Fury or a Skiff to lure them to throw their crew into the fire, and then hunted them down.
But the Cruiser also proved quite efficient, keep a small profile (pointing in their direction), preferably in the "dead angles", and keep good use of the surprising high turning rate of the Terran Cruiser.
Quasispatial wrote:For engaging the Maulers, aside from the aforementioned vessels, a Terminator also works quite well for soaking up shots due to its shields. Someone quick on the shield trigger can block and dodge the projectiles until the Druuge have missed/wasted enough shots to cease being a threat, but it does require some fair skill in the art of timing.

The Torch is, as always, overpowered, so that would do the trick too. As would the Nemesis, given that you're able to keep it out of harm's way long enough for its boarders to do their job.

I will have to test these all out! Or maybe I’ll just do the whole battle with the Vindicator!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Thu May 02, 2019 7:10 am

Well, the Kohr-Ah are set to annihilate all intelligent, non-Ur-Quan races.
Guess what, the Kohr-Ah actor found the word "annihilate" to have a negative ring to it (making it sound like genocide), so the game text got changed to "cleansing the filth" and "we cleanse" as far as possible, just like the Germans (my ancestors) spoke of "cleaning/protecting their arian blood", and the Church of "cleansing the impure".
It's all part of the Kohr-Ah PR, belittling the unmoral actions (though that would still push our values of moral over the aliens, instead of measuring them by their own set of moral values).
This explanation is not canon (as it's never in-game), and therefore an inside "joke" of old fans, comparing the Kohr-Ah to genocidal historical figures who through their choice of words made it all sound far less harmful than it actually was/is.
Partly we mock the low IQ/EQ of dictators through this.

But it is indeed weird, I do remember the Kohr-Ah using "annihilate" more often than "nothing at all".
Likely because (nearly) all other races use that word when talking about the Kohr-Ah, or my memory is also playing a trick here.

Can we just drop this discussion for now? Please?
But let me assure you first, that these small things will be explained to you fully by us, once you've beaten the game.
The links simply are full of spoilers, and we cannot link you to those yet.

Troglodyte: Don't quote me, the text in spoiler-tags is always plain readable when editing a quoted post.
Indeed, in the sa-matra quote file the word does not appear once correctly spelled/pronounced...
Mary had a little lamb!

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Thu May 02, 2019 7:28 am

Back to the real topic at hand, therefore a new post:
The Troglodyte wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:55 am
I will have to test these all out! Or maybe I’ll just do the whole battle with the Vindicator!
Well, you could use the simulator, but indeed, the simulator does not know how to handle your Vindicator...
But the battles in the simulator could easily show you some ways to handle the Druuge Mauler fleet without risking a few dents in your large, bulky, larger than barn-door sized unique Precursor Vehicle.
(Also remember, the high velocity bullets can easily slam through the front plating of your ship, even more so through the panorama window of the bridge. And it would be a pity for you to die before you can press the button of your time-device transporting you out when the bullet shatters the red panorama window. Then that unvaluable device might fall into the hands of the Druuge.)

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