About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

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Quasispatial
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Quasispatial » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:07 pm

krulle wrote:
Quasispatial wrote:
krulle wrote:Sometimes I wonder why the Thraddash have been subjugated by the Ur Quan at all...
It's probably the principle of the matter. Can't just leave a race un-subjugated like that, even if the race in question would never be able to become an actual threat considering how their politics work.
Sure, from the Ur-Quan point of view there is no alternative.
I meant more like why haven't the Thraddash continued fighting until the Kzer-Za punished the planet the evolved on?
Why did the Traddash ever consider waiving the white flag and choosing to become battle thralls?


There are more things in the story like this.
I think in a modern game, this kind of story holes would not be accepted anymore, yet the lack of resources of the systems 25 years ago made it fully acceptable to have stereotypes likes this.... And imperfect story elements.
And it became a game consistenly in the top 10 of best games ever.

Anyway, back to Captain Troglodyte's story of how he freed the local galaxy from enslavement and saved it from annihilation.
Makes sense if you think about it.

When the Ur-Quan invaded Thraddash space, their casual defeat of the current leadership thoroughly embarrassed said leadership. Recognizing that the Ur-Quan was a foe they could not fight successfully, the government did the wise thing for once and agreed to be battle thralls in order to get the 'Quans off their back. Of course, whilst that silenced the Ur-Quan assault, it did nothing to help their embarrassment, and so they were overthrown by their own kin. The new Ur-Quan-'elected' government then had the 'Quans at their back; any rebels would be sorry. Thus, problem solved. No events have occurred that would require an extermination.

And Trog, fyi, we're not just posting big empty boxes to confuse you here. Something is actually being said, believe it or not.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Draxas
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Draxas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:51 pm

Not to mention, the Thraddash surrender to you if you kill enough of them. What is it, like 20 or 30 ships? While the Thraddash are violent and impossible to reason with, they're clearly not stupid. They know when they are hopelessly outmatched and have more to gain by learning from someone than trying in vain to kill them. When the Ur-Quan likely effortlessly brushed aside a good portion of their fleet, the Thraddash recognized the value of learning from them so that they could be superior fighters. If that meant giving up their liberty to become battle thralls, well, so much the better. The scenario is the same when the Vindicator comes to town; the Thraddash recognize that they have no chance against even this one ship, and make Zelnick their teacher after taking only minor losses. That they then unceremoniously send pilots and ship plans to the starbase should be no surprise; every good teacher comes with the opportunity to get in more fights.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:15 pm

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Captain’s Log – Oct 18, 2157 – Delta Draconis – Yellow Alert

We have arrived on the outskirts of the Delta Draconis, and there are several Thraddash vessels liberally sprinkled throughout the system, but none of them are as of yet aware of our presence:

Image

I have placed a time portal so we can learn what we can from the Thraddash, but with the added benefit of being able to correct any of our missteps during conversation, and/or for restoring incursions if talks don’t go well.

We will set an intercept course for the Thraddash orbiting the 8th planet, since they are the most isolated of the bunch. We are going to red alert. Zelnick out.
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Captain’s Log – Oct 19, 2157 – Delta Draconis – Yellow Alert

The Thraddash greeted us and were excited about somebody new to fight, and they discussed their fighting philosophy and how they learn and improve and adapt, but they wanted to give us a short while to talk before the battle would inevitably commence.

We asked them why they were so hostile, but they quickly denied their level of hostility, comparing themselves to their formers of Culture 12, and basically described a group of warring tribes coming to fight each other but basically ended up killing and mangling themelves, and how did all that start? …Somebody stepping on someone else’s toe! Yeah, that’s pretty hostile.

We wanted to learn more about them so we asked more questions, but they became annoyed, comparing our blabbermouth insistence to Culture 14, who similar to us desired for friendliness, and they had pointed out that all of their in-fighting was the wrong way to go about things, and furthermore, each time they reformed their culture to achieve new levels of violent greatness, the end result was them getting blasted back a half a century in technological development in the process. Culture 15 showed up and wiped out Culture 14, and they decided that Culture 14 must’ve been wrong all along since it didn’t regress them by 500 years, but a mere 200 or 300 years. Now that’s progress!

We asked for them to describe more about their own Culture 19, and they were flabbergasted that we wished to continue on with our dialogue exchange instead of battling each other, but they reluctantly told us of how the Ur-Quan came in and conquered them, so that was the sign given for them to come to the realization it was time for a new culture to be established, so of course global warfare soon erupted to decide who would emerge on top to lead in the new culture, but of course the Ur-Quan wasn’t really too keen on that idea, so the Ur-Quan’s fighters were sent which intercepted and neutralized all of the incoming missiles. Then the Ur-Quan forbade them from continuing to wage war amongst themselves, but a group of Thraddash decided to go with an alternate plan by releasing poison into their enemy’s water and air, killing all of their foes. The Ur-Quan found out about this and killed all of the Thraddash leaders and appointed some replacements at random; they must’ve had a big raffle and if you had a winning ticket, you get to become a Thraddash leader!

They told us that before they were subjugated by the Ur-Quan, they had attacked them as soon as they appeared in the region, coming from the direction of the Ophiuchi stars, but their Mark 6 blasters were virtually ineffective, and everything the Dreadnought fusion blasters didn’t destroy, well… the fighters cleaned up the rest. We were curious that they didn’t use their afterburners to escape, but they hadn’t been developed yet. It wasn’t until around 14 years ago, sometime in 2143, an engineer named Reeunk stuck his cigar into the aft valve of one of their ships and the ship took off super-fast, but during the process poor Reeunk was unfortunately fried to a crisp, but they soon learned they could adapt this technique for their ships, and now every Torch is equipped with the Reeunk-inspired afterburner.

We asked them why they didn’t fight during the War, since we had never heard of any Thraddash activity during that time, and they had really wanted to contribute to the war effort in a bad way, but they explained that the Ur-Quan considered them too weak to hold their own in battle, plus they were also always fighting with the other battle thralls, namely the Umgah and Ilwrath, so the Ur-Quan made an excuse, saying they needed the Thraddash to guard the flank.

The Thraddash are also aware of the war going on between the Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah, so we suggested that they show-off the new afterburner modification to impress their Ur-Quan masters, and before I knew it, all of the Thraddash were dropping everything and heading off to attack the Kohr-Ah!! And that’s a good thing! Uh… right?

Problem solved after one conversation? Well, that was easy enough!… perhaps a little… too easy. Zelnick out.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

krulle
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:01 pm

The enemy of your enemy is... Your hostile enemy?

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The Troglodyte
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:25 pm

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Captain’s Log – Oct 20, 2157 – Delta Draconis (Near 5th planet) – Red Alert

After our conversation with the Thraddash, we brought up the starmap to see what their sphere of influence encompasses (since the last time we first encountered the Thraddash that had nearly all been wiped out by the Ilwrath) and to see if it has moved towards Ur-Quan/Kohr-Ah space, but since it’s only been a very short time, it seems to have only moved a smidgen:

Image

We grew more curious about why the Thraddash are the way they are, so we tracked down some others nearby, and when we did, we asked what made them so brutal, and then we got to hear another story about one of their many cultures, and this time it was all about Culture 3. Culture 2 had already proven to everybody that they had learned all sorts of concepts of toughness, including the ability to resist large amounts of pain, testicular fortitude and overall an ability to withstand many various types of hardship, suffering and torture, but I wouldn’t exactly call it sagacious.

The new upcoming culture had to find a way overcome this level of toughness and brutality, so what was their solution? Masochism! How better to demonstrate how tough you are then by chopping off one of your arms and wave it around like a war banner?! And it worked! Sure, the one-armed Thraddash warriors are spewing blood all over the place out of the large gaping hole that had previously held a functional arm and using said arm to taunt your opponent like an Ilwrath seeking self-retribution to the D.K. twins, but it was effective, since anybody, at least anybody reasonably sane, would be shocked into terror at the sheer sight of the bloodthirsty (hopefully not literally bloodthirsty though, considering the easy access to blood fountains) crazed maniacs! The Thraddash also recognized this as being primitive too, but they asserted that this was only their third culture, so that should be accepted.

We told them we wanted to be their friends, but they retorted they wanted us to be their slaves. Continuing to try and obtain a friendly dialogue, we continued our posture of compromise and attempting accommodation we pointed out that they are strong and we like that, asking if they would reconsider our terms of friendship, but they called us weak, stating that since we refused to be their slaves and have nothing to teach them, then therefore we are their enemy.

We tried to bid them farewell and leave in peace, but then they surprise attacked us, claiming it was a lesson they’d like to teach us. However, the lesson learning would be for them, in which they learned our true strength as the Vindicator walloped all three of their vessels with no trouble whatsoever, so I guess in fact they haven’t learned a lesson today… since they’re now dead, but I think some of their friends are now on their way!

We are returning to battle stations as more Thraddash are starting to show up. Captain out.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

krulle
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:46 pm

Good luck defeating those improvements on Culture 3...

They can take a punch. Or two. Or five. Or twenty-five.

But why decimate them, when they're about to attack the enemy of their masters?
The more ships you leave them, the more they have to fight the Kohr-Ah, possibly tipping the balance in the Kzer-Za's favour... (as if any ships you destroyed so far had any impact on those elements...)

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Death 999
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Death 999 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:33 pm

Come on, look at that matchup. Kohr-Ah vs Thraddash isn't a good matchup. I am curious as to whether the Ilwrath will follow them into the war zone, though.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:38 pm

Yeah, but are the Ilwrath fast enough to catch the Thraddash before the Kohr-Ah finish the Thraddash off?

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:36 pm

krulle wrote:Good luck defeating those improvements on Culture 3...

They can take a punch. Or two. Or five. Or twenty-five.
Well, at least that would explain why after the battle there was the occasional Thraddash from the blasted debris who flew by the Vindicator’s window with his limbs blown off that kept taunting us as he whizzed by, and I believe he said something to the effect of, “Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what’s coming to you! I’ll bite your legs off!”… or something like that! :D
Death 999 wrote:I am curious as to whether the Ilwrath will follow them into the war zone, though.
Hmmm… Now that you mention it… I am too!

(Meanwhile…)
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Captain’s Log – Oct 20, 2157 – Delta Draconis (Near Planet 3) – Red Alert

We’ve encountered another group of Thraddash, whom we’ve unfortunately had to destroy.

They approached and were snorting and thumping their chests with pride as they extolled how proud they were of their skills, their ships, and their uh… expert application of political correctness. Well, I guess it is true, they are quite equitable in their conversation exchange, as crude as it may be, and even though they do call us stupid sometimes.

In our previous communications, we had done just about everything possible to try to keep things friendly and cordial, but so far that hasn’t accomplished much in getting us anywhere on good ground, but I still haven’t given up on at least trying to approach with optimism that we could somehow negotiate some kind of peaceful resolution, lest more Thraddash meet an untimely end.

Even though it seemed redundant, I figured we could go ahead and hear another retelling of the story about Culture 3, so I once again asked them why they are so brutal, but I was taken aback by their response. They had already heard over space channels communications that we had been asking lots of questions, so they refused to answer ours, but instead insisted that we explain why there have been red probes (or as they like to call them: “robot emissaries of death”) which have been attacking their ships, and they accused us of being the culprit!

They have noticed that the probes come from the direction of Vega. Hmmm… maybe they should go visit the area and talk to Slylandro… perhaps then they could mellow out and chill a little on their violent tendencies! Okay, maybe not. They’d probably just use their afterburners to ignite the Slylandro’s gas giant into one, big colossal fireball!

Once again, we tried to leave in peace, but more nonchalantly instead of airing a false blissful statement of departure, but it made no difference, we shrugged them off and tried to go, but they shrugged back and charged their weapons, and then we were forced to destroy them.

Hmmm… what’s this on sensors? Oh great! More Thraddash. Oh well, here we go again. Battle Stations. Captain out.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:45 pm

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Captain’s Log – Oct 20, 2157 – Delta Draconis (near Planet 3) - Red Alert

We could’ve put some distance between ourselves and the encroachment of Thraddash ships coming at us from all sides, but I ordered us to stay put near the 3rd planet so we could resolve the situation, or so we could at least give it our best try.

The Thraddash are still frustrated by the probe presence, and they’ve even witnessed one orbiting a strange planet in Epsilon Draconis. They described the planet as affecting their sensors, producing a wildly colored image. That must be another Rainbow World! Uh… and yeah, they of course once again accused us of using these probes in nefarious ways… somehow, and that if we would not reveal the truth or they would beat the information out of us! Yikes!

At this point I had had about enough of all of their hostile attitude and always trying to intimidate us, so I informed them all of their bully talk was not impressing me in the slightest, and we had conditions they would immediately be required to meet.

Well, that certainly got their attention! The look on the leader’s face was priceless as his jaw dropped in disbelief that we would actually defy and stand up to them; he practically swallowed his cigar! He then declared they would destroy me and everybody on my ship. Then we destroyed their entire fleet in less than 2 minutes. If these Thraddash keep up attacking us, there won’t be enough left over to attack the Kohr-Ah!

I am now growing more and more curious about this strange world the Thraddash spoke of. We will set course for Epsilon Draconis. We will maintain Red Alert status as we perform evasive maneuvers out of the system. Zelnick out.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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