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All About Star Control
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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:06 am 
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Hunam adventurer

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Posts: 38
dczanik wrote:
Zarnium wrote:
The download page says to support the game "when we go on Steam." Is that actually in the cards?


That's the plan. Just wanted to make sure the beta is out first.


Best of luck with it!

You'll have my full support!


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Hunam adventurer

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 11
dczanik wrote:
Zarnium wrote:
The download page says to support the game "when we go on Steam." Is that actually in the cards?


That's the plan. Just wanted to make sure the beta is out first.


Have you researched whether Steam is compatible with the GPL? If it requires integrating the code with Steam's DRM libraries, this may not be possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Ilwrath spawn
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Elestan wrote:
Have you researched whether Steam is compatible with the GPL? If it requires integrating the code with Steam's DRM libraries, this may not be possible.


I get this all the time. There seems to be wild misconceptions about what you can, (and can't) do with GPL.
There's no legal reason that Steam couldn't host games under GPL or BSD. In fact, if Valve really wanted to, they could actually sell a free, open-source game, as long as the art assets were under the same license (and they were willing to provide source code on request, if the game is under GPL).


Does GPL allow for you to charge items? Yes.

Wait. GPL Means it has to cost nothing. False. It means as it is "free" as in freedom, not "free" like a free beer.

Will you charge for UQM-HD? No.

You can't put GPL items on Steam. False. The GPL does not dictate that the platform or OS it's being distributed on to be open.

Apple doesn't allow for GPL items on Steam. True. Apple expressly forbids open source software. Boo Apple.

There's no other GPL Software on steam! False.

You can't have DRM with GPL: False.

Will the source code be available? Yes.

Will the source code be available on Steam!? Yes!

But the Steam runtime isn't open source. Not that it matters, but Yes it is.

Do you have permission from the creators of Star Control 2? Yes

Do you have permission from the Ur-Quan Masters team? Yes.

Will the software be available elsewhere? Always. I don't see us changing from sourceforge anytime soon.

Is this a guarantee? No. It's a legal minefield.

Why Steam? Getting the game on other platforms is our best hope of growing the userbase and getting another (real) Star Control game.

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- Damon Czanik
Artist/Project Leader for Ur-Quan Masters HD and the SC2 Fan Sequel,Project 6014
My new portfolio site! and my DeviantArt!


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Silly Supox
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What exactly is the deal with SCII's copyright, anyway? Is it only the name "Star Control" that's copyrighted by Accolade, and not the game itself or any of the story?


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Ilwrath spawn
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Zarnium wrote:
What exactly is the deal with SCII's copyright, anyway? Is it only the name "Star Control" that's copyrighted by Accolade, and not the game itself or any of the story?


Correct, as far as I know. Accolade was bought by Atari. There's some deal about the rights going back to TFB if they don't release another Star Control game which resulted in a rushed web game that was removed almost immediately.

_________________
- Damon Czanik
Artist/Project Leader for Ur-Quan Masters HD and the SC2 Fan Sequel,Project 6014
My new portfolio site! and my DeviantArt!


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:45 am 
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Hunam adventurer

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 11
dczanik wrote:
Zarnium wrote:
What exactly is the deal with SCII's copyright, anyway? Is it only the name "Star Control" that's copyrighted by Accolade, and not the game itself or any of the story?

Correct, as far as I know. Accolade was bought by Atari. There's some deal about the rights going back to TFB if they don't release another Star Control game which resulted in a rushed web game that was removed almost immediately.

Just to clarify, the "Star Control" name isn't copyrighted; it's trademarked. That trademark belongs to Atari, but if it isn't used for a certain period of time, it's considered abandoned. When that deadline was approaching, Atari rushed out a little flash game called "Star Control". I'm pretty sure that it never would have held up if someone had challenged the trademark, and even if it did, enough time then went by that the trademark would have lapsed anyway. However, since Star Control is now available on Good Old Games, it might be considered in use again, at least enough that it would be expensive to challenge it.

On the other hand, the copyright to the Star Control 2 binaries still belongs to Atari, and the copyright to the movies belongs either to Atari or to the company that made the movies. However, from what I understand, the copyright to the Star Control 2 source code reverted to Toys For Bob due to the triggering of some clause in their contract. This is what allowed them to releasee that code under the GPL as "Ur-Quan Masters".

Since then, the code has since been added to by the UQM dev team and others. So the copyright to UQM is jointly owned by TfB, the UQM dev team, and everyone else who has had a patch accepted into the UQM code base. For UQM-HD, that also includes dczanik and all of the developers who contributed to that project.

dczanik wrote:
But the Steam runtime isn't open source. Not that it matters, but Yes it is.

The only reason I can think of that this wouldn't matter is if there's no requirement to link the game with Steam's libraries. Is that the case?


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:02 am 
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Ilwrath spawn
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Elestan wrote:
The only reason I can think of that this wouldn't matter is if there's no requirement to link the game with Steam's libraries. Is that the case?


I imagine, we'll branch off the code via git. Right now, the code doesn't even exist yet. We haven't even started. We're focused on the Beta first.

_________________
- Damon Czanik
Artist/Project Leader for Ur-Quan Masters HD and the SC2 Fan Sequel,Project 6014
My new portfolio site! and my DeviantArt!


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:25 am 
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Silly Supox
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Elestan wrote:
Just to clarify, the "Star Control" name isn't copyrighted; it's trademarked.


True, true. I took Electronic Law, I should know that.

Maybe I should just make a new thread about SCII's intellectual property status. I fear I'm starting to veer the off topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:43 am 
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Hunam adventurer

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:28 pm
Posts: 11
dczanik wrote:
Elestan wrote:
The only reason I can think of that this wouldn't matter is if there's no requirement to link the game with Steam's libraries. Is that the case?

I imagine, we'll branch off the code via git. Right now, the code doesn't even exist yet. We haven't even started. We're focused on the Beta first.


If Steam doesn't require you to link their libraries to UQM, then you're fine. Or if their libraries are available under a GPL-compatible license, then you're also fine. But if Steam's libraries are not under a GPL-compatible license, then the GPL forbids mixing them with the UQM code or anything derived from the UQM code; branching the code in git doesn't change that.

So, I think that's where the concern comes from. With a brief search, I haven't been able to find anything that definitively settles the question one way or the other. If your research has turned up some conclusive information on this, I came across several other GPL projects that would probably be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Ur-Quan Masters HD mod
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Reborn Shofixti
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Warsow was/is up for being Greenlit in Steam and I know it's GPL'ed so I'm guessing there's a solution to getting GPL games on Steam.

Also whilst Googling to check I wasn't talking crap I stumbled on this article: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/id-sorts-gpl-steam-issue. Basically id using DOSbox in Steam.


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