Women on this board

Anything that isn't Star Control. Mind your manners!

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Shiver
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Shiver » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:33 am

Hey Saria, question. How affiliated are you with Frungylovers, really? The people I remember stopped having much of anything to do with UQMF and SCDB late last decade.

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Saria
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Saria » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:51 am

Shiver wrote:Hey Saria, question. How affiliated are you with Frungylovers, really? The people I remember stopped having much of anything to do with UQMF and SCDB late last decade.
Honestly? Not very. I posted something on there a long while back. Most people have migrated from livejournal to either dreamwidth or tumblr.

Random tidbit, there's about 62 people following my star control tumblr and I'm certain a large chunk of them are chicks. :?

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Eth
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Eth » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:14 am

Goddammit, Saria. I just stayed up till 2:13 AM looking at your goddamn Tumblr. Now I'm tired.

I'm too old for this shit.

Y U gotta put so much amusing shit on there?

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Bleeding Star
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Bleeding Star » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:24 pm

I've discovered I can't do Tumblr - what a shite way of presenting information. I may just be a bit too old-mannish though.

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Death 999
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Death 999 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:41 pm

No, you're right. Tumblr is comprehensively terrible web design.

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Angelfish
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Angelfish » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:10 am

Death 999 wrote:No, you're right. Tumblr is comprehensively terrible web design.
strawberry

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The Troglodyte
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Re: Women on this board

Post by The Troglodyte » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:56 pm

Very interesting discussion. I’ve actually often times found myself in a bit of a quandary when it comes to addressing people in the best way possible without making assumptions about their gender, but it can be difficult at times. And it’s not that I’m worrying about offending people; it’s just how I prefer to interact with people without using male or female pronouns if that has not yet been established.

Take this sentence for example: “I was talking with Angelfish and asked him his opinion on the matter and he explained that he felt it would be best if he and I could speak on the subject later since he’ll reply tomorrow.”

Now if I want to keep it gender neutral, I would have to re-type it by replacing all of the pronouns: “I was talking with Angelfish and asked Angelfish Angelfish’s opinion on the matter and Angelfish explained that Angelfish felt it would be best if Angelfish and I could speak on the subject later since Angelfish’ll reply tomorrow.”

Of course now the sentence looks ridiculous, so I’d have to clean it up: “I was talking with Angelfish and wanted an opinion on the matter and was explained that it would be best if we could speak on the subject later since they’ll reply tomorrow.”

Still problematic, the sentence loses its substance, everything becomes vague and ambiguous, I've also begun to go out of my way to use words like "we", and other plural pronouns like “they” or “their” begin to look like viable candidates.

More editing: “I wanted Angelfish’s opinion on the matter but we’ll have to speak on the subject later since the reply will occur tomorrow.”

It doesn’t even look like a complete sentence anymore, and now it no longer really conveys everything I wanted to say in the way I wanted to say it. Whatever, I give up. (Clicks Send.)

There are so many times I find myself backspacing through words like “he” and “his” when speaking about somebody, and I realize I’ve given them male gender status as a placeholder without even thinking. Oops. Then I’m left trying to reconsider what to type.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to dance around gender when it comes to our speech and grammar.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Angelfish
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Re: Women on this board

Post by Angelfish » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:29 pm

Just stop speaking English then, we can continue in a gender neutral language like Persian?

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The Troglodyte
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Re: Women on this board

Post by The Troglodyte » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:55 pm

Angelfish wrote:Just stop speaking English then, we can continue in a gender neutral language like Persian?
That makes perfect sense to me! Except... oh, there's just this one thing, uh... I don't speak any Persian. I know some Spanish, but it seems that language uses gender association even morseso along with masculine/feminine articles.

I also hope it's ok I used your alias for my example; your name bounces off the screen with much better pop than for me to have written "The Troglodyte" over and over! ;)-smf
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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fluffy_banana
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Re: Women on this board

Post by fluffy_banana » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:50 pm

There's an easier solution than Persian, The Troglodyte. Just use singular they, it's a well established practice in English and it is rarely ambiguous in context.

You used it in your 'cleaned up' gender neutral example but only at the very end: 'they'll reply tomorrow'. But for example 'I was talking to Angelfish and asked them their opinion on the matter' is a perfectly legitimate phrasing.

Or if you must default to a specific gender pronoun (and risk misgendering someone anyway), why not at least try female pronouns now and again? An interesting exercise in this approach was Ancillary Justice by Leckie, a recent and very fine hard-scifi novel in which the protagonist came from a culture which didn't distinguish gender and defaulted to female pronouns such that all characters were referred to as 'she' (except sometimes in dialogue). I thought it did a really nice job of leading the reader to introspect and confront some of the gender-based preconceptions one builds around a character (or for that matter an internet persona).
Once again we meet to exchange valuable tangibles. Isn't this fun?!

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