Sequels strife

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Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:50 am

Copyright for 95 years, lex Disney. (Otherwise the original Mickey Mouse (as depicted in Steamboat Willy) would've become public domain.
The US is an exception for that. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright ... es#History )

It's unusual that a character is being used commercially and successfully over such a long time.
Usually the creator would've been dead and not receive the income anymore.
But ownership by corporations changed that.

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:52 pm

Draxas wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:47 pmif that interval of doing nothing is long enough (though I'm not sure how long exactly, but I think it's something like 75 years?), there is an argument to be made that the work is now public domain and anyone can use it freely.
In the U.S., copyright for joint works or works for hire (which would include SC) lasts for 95 years after first publication. So there's a long time to go.

I would actually prefer that copyright be considerably shorter, but that's what we have right now.

Trademarks need to be renewed every ten years, but the company must keep then in use, or show at least an intent to use them, and has an obligation to defend them (i.e. keep other people from using them), or else they become vulnerable. One of the arguments in the court case was that Atari had neglected the use of the trademark for so long that it lapsed before Stardock bought it.

Re: Sequels strife

by Draxas » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:47 pm

Borgie wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:34 pmMy own opinion about F&P making no progress... doing nothing with your property doesn't mean it belongs to someone else. As much as I'd love for F&P to make the sequel, we can't just say "you took too long, now it's mine". That's now how ownership of property works. I'm sure there are some legal nuances here, for or against. Once again, my opinion.
You're right that it doesn't work this way. However, if that interval of doing nothing is long enough (though I'm not sure how long exactly, but I think it's something like 75 years?), there is an argument to be made that the work is now public domain and anyone can use it freely. I'm not sure video games as a medium are even old enough to qualify yet, so that's not really a risk. Trademarks, however, I think will lapse much more quickly (though again, I don't know the specifics and can't even guess in this case).

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:38 pm

Borgie wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:34 pmForgive me if this was already made clear: is renaming "Ghosts of the Precursors" due to legal issues (or even because it links to the lawsuit) or because they just didn't like the name?
It's due to legal issues; Stardock was claiming that they had associated the name with Stardock's trademark, and therefore couldn't use it.

Stardock might or might not have won that argument if it had gone to court, but regardless, it was something P&F chose to concede in the settlement.

Re: Sequels strife

by Borgie » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:34 pm

Forgive me if this was already made clear: is renaming "Ghosts of the Precursors" due to legal issues (or even because it links to the lawsuit) or because they just didn't like the name?

As for "help with technology", that's extremely vague (and probably on purpose). Technology could be game-engine technology. Or development tools (my guess). Or even computer hardware (this seems unlikely to me). Even dev tools are a vast in scope. Summary: We have no clue what it could mean, unless F&P/Brad have given out more hints.

My own opinion about F&P making no progress... doing nothing with your property doesn't mean it belongs to someone else. As much as I'd love for F&P to make the sequel, we can't just say "you took too long, now it's mine". That's now how ownership of property works. I'm sure there are some legal nuances here, for or against. Once again, my opinion.

Also, Happy New Year everyone!

Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:21 pm

Should've reloaded the page before amending my post.

You saw the same as I did, and I already corrected myself while I had this tab with the outdated post open in the background.

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:19 pm

krulle wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:15 pm
Elestan wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:32 pm
krulle wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:17 pmAnd it could be F&P will design their game in the engine of StarDock. Or at least some part of the engine might be used for UQM2.
This seems extremely unlikely to me, unless it was forced upon P&F as part of the settlement. Given the fights they've had to endure over these IP rights, I think that the last thing they would want to do is to give Stardock additional control over their future game by using its technology.
I found it weird too, but it's the only interpretation I can come up for "Brad will help with technology".
Note that the actual quote is (emphasis added):
Brad offered to help Fred and Paul with technology.
Brad offering is not surprising; he's been wanting P&F to hitch their game to Stardock from the beginning. But they've never given any indication that they were actually interested in doing so.

Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:15 pm

Elestan wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:32 pm
krulle wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:17 pmAnd it could be F&P will design their game in the engine of StarDock. Or at least some part of the engine might be used for UQM2.
This seems extremely unlikely to me, unless it was forced upon P&F as part of the settlement. Given the fights they've had to endure over these IP rights, I think that the last thing they would want to do is to give Stardock additional control over their future game by using its technology.
I found it weird too, but it's the only interpretation I can come up for "Brad offered to help with technology".
Maybe it'll just be some rendering engine, ship creating tool, or similar
We simply don't know if the UQM2 will even use a starmap, or will see another complete re-design of interstellar travel (similar to the complete re-designs from "Vol. IV" to "Star Control 2" to "Star Control 3").

edit: corrected the quote "Brad offered to help with technology" (was: "Brad will help with technology").
This sounds like Brad maybe offered the use of StarDock's engine, but the formulation used on the blog post leaves the acceptance of the offer completely open.
I wonder whether Fred and Paul even have made a final decision on this.

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:32 pm

krulle wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:17 pmAnd it could be F&P will design their game in the engine of StarDock. Or at least some part of the engine might be used for UQM2.
This seems extremely unlikely to me, unless it was forced upon P&F as part of the settlement. Given the fights they've had to endure over these IP rights, I think that the last thing they would want to do is to give Stardock additional control over their future game by using its technology.
krulle wrote:
P&F wrote:The precise ‘when’ is unclear, but it is still several years off.
We're just a good year after the settlement. Several years I interpret as "at least 3 years, likely 6 or more".
The word is that the settlement blocks them from talking about it for two years (until Summer 2021). But how long it will take them to rebuild the financial and social resources they had to expend in the legal fight is anyone's guess.

Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:17 pm

I presume they are in a project for Activision again, and now have to wait for the project to wrap up before starting their investments into UQM2.
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/ wrote:The terms are not confidential. We won't be publishing the text of the agreement, but we are free to describe all of its contents.
So, they may talk about the terms, but not disclose the actual wording of the terms.
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/ wrote:To help differentiate the two franchises Paul volunteered to create a few new alien races for Origins.

Brad offered to help Fred and Paul with technology.
But Paul will work with Brad to design some original species for StarDock's Star Control universe.
And it could be F&P will design their game in the engine of StarDock. Or at least some part of the engine might be used for UQM2.

Which hopefully will make it interesting enough for a follow-up. By both sides.
Designing new species might give Paul some story ideas for UQM2.

Now, to your actual question:
2-23-6 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:47 amSo is Ghosts of Precursors ever coming out? Did they ever give the word?
There will NOT be a game named Ghosts of the Precursors by Fred&Paul in the UQM universe.
[url]https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/6/11/the-only-way-to-win-is[/url], 11 June 2019 wrote:Paul and Fred will be changing the name "Ghosts of the Precursors" to something a little less generic -- (come on, you know we can do better!). The precise ‘when’ is unclear, but it is still several years off.
We're just a good year after the settlement. Several years I interpret as "at least 3 years, likely 6 or more".

Be patient, my little one.

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