Sequels strife

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Re: Sequels strife

by 2-23-6-not-logged-in » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:55 pm

Yeah, that sucks. So we'll see how long this all takes.

Re: Sequels strife

by Death 999 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:22 am

Well, he's just recapping what we've known for some time.

Re: Sequels strife

by Alvarin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:20 pm

Yeah... Who could have guessed this will become even uglier...

Re: Sequels strife

by Dyandod » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:07 pm

A fourth video from YouTuber Law:

"Star Control Lawsuit Update: What a Mess"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT9ZgPn ... oGcvorbSt4

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:29 pm

2-23-6 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:59 pm
How is GotP progressing?
I assume it's on hold until the legal case is resolved. Why would they work on it when they might not be allowed to release it?

Re: Sequels strife

by 2-23-6 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:59 pm

How is GotP progressing?

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:46 pm

Spaceport wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:12 pm
I understand it not initially being evident that their expression of wanting to keep the rights exclusive for their own future plans meant they would be going forward in the near future.
Well, for generous values of "near future"; it was still another four years before P&F announced GotP. And while Stardock took exception to them announcing around the time of the beta, I suspect that if they'd waited another year to announce, SD would have been even more upset at them stepping on the game's actual release.

Re: Sequels strife

by Spaceport » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:12 pm

Elestan wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:52 pm
Spaceport wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:33 pm
So Brad figured out, on his own, that F&P might be planning their own sequel, which he expressed support for before the public announcement and without any direct confirmation from F&P.
He didn't even need to figure it out on his own; P&F told him they had plans shortly after he bought the trademark, From those same emails:
Paul Reiche on Sep 16, 2013 wrote:Fred and I are just not comfortable handing over our world to be developed by others. We’ve been discussing this for almost 20 years and we’ve always regarded a return to Star Control as our dream project – something we’d work on as soon as we found the opportunity. I know this will be a disappointment for you and your team, but Fred and I still have a Star Control plan and we’re not ready to give it up yet.
Brad has more recently tried to say that he assumed P&F would wait until Stardock was done with the franchise before putting their plans into motion, implying that it was somehow unreasonable for them to act earlier than that. But I see nothing in the email chain to suggest that he had a reasonable basis for that assumption.

And that wasn't the first baseless assumption he appears to have made. As near as I can tell, this all started when he bought the trademark under the apparent assumption that P&F would either jump at the chance to work with him, or would at least license their copyrights to him. But he didn't actually ask their opinion about it until he'd already blown $400k of his company's money on the trademark. When they turned him down, he seemed to realize that he'd bought a lemon, and tried to effectively back out of the purchase by selling it to them.

Ultimately, he asks no fewer than seven times for them to give him a license, and never really seems to get the hint that they aren't obligated to play along just because he got himself in a bind.
To be fair, they also said much the same thing to Accolade when StarCon was being worked on and to fans over the years, so I understand it not initially being evident that their expression of wanting to keep the rights exclusive for their own future plans meant they would be going forward in the near future.

That said, there is indeed no reasonable basis for him to assume that Paul and Fred would delay their own plans for him, nor is there any reasonable reason why they should. Buying the trademark from Atari does not mean that Paul and Fred, having nothing to do with the purchase agreement, owe him anything. Nor should it mean that if the opportunity P&F had been hoping would come along for 25 years finally presents itself, they should delay it for... who even knows how long Brad would be satisfied with given his initially stated sequel plans.

Paul and Fred are free to work or not work with him, coordinate or not coordinate with him. Any suggestion otherwise is absurd.

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:52 pm

Spaceport wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:33 pm
So Brad figured out, on his own, that F&P might be planning their own sequel, which he expressed support for before the public announcement and without any direct confirmation from F&P.
He didn't even need to figure it out on his own; P&F told him they had plans shortly after he bought the trademark, From those same emails:
Paul Reiche on Sep 16, 2013 wrote:Fred and I are just not comfortable handing over our world to be developed by others. We’ve been discussing this for almost 20 years and we’ve always regarded a return to Star Control as our dream project – something we’d work on as soon as we found the opportunity. I know this will be a disappointment for you and your team, but Fred and I still have a Star Control plan and we’re not ready to give it up yet.
Brad has more recently tried to say that he assumed P&F would wait until Stardock was done with the franchise before putting their plans into motion, implying that it was somehow unreasonable for them to act earlier than that. But I see nothing in the email chain to suggest that he had a reasonable basis for that assumption.

And that wasn't the first baseless assumption he appears to have made. As near as I can tell, this all started when he bought the trademark under the apparent assumption that P&F would either jump at the chance to work with him, or would at least license their copyrights to him. But he didn't actually ask their opinion about it until he'd already blown $400k of his company's money on the trademark. When they turned him down, he seemed to realize that he'd bought a lemon, and tried to effectively back out of the purchase by selling it to them.

Ultimately, he asks no fewer than seven times for them to give him a license, and never really seems to get the hint that they aren't obligated to play along just because he got himself in a bind.

Re: Sequels strife

by Spaceport » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:33 pm

sakalava47 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:31 pm
I, for one, thought it was kind of weaselly how Fred and Paul waited until someone else was investing tons of money into a new Star Control game and then they FINALLY came out and said they're making a "real" sequel. Imagine you were in Brad's or Stardock's position. It would feel like a kick in the nuts. It would do serious damage to your credibility and divide the fan base. Which is what it did. My respect for Fred and Paul isn't that high right now.
Imagine you're Fred and Paul. You've always wanted to create a sequel to Star Control II, but due to poor working conditions with Accolade you had to step away and, after putting your efforts elsewhere, you were unable to convince Activision to let you return to Star Control. All the while you were always very open with fans. You open sourced SCII to keep awareness of the property high and grow the fanbase, you asked the fans to petition Activision to try to let them know that interest in such an old property was high enough to make returning to it worthwhile, and when an interloper came along and bought the "Star Control" trademark, you explained to him that you had your own plans for continuing the story and that you had your own 25th anniversary announcement plans.

Here is Brad asking to coordinate something with F&P for the anniversary:

8. We are still hoping to release Star Control: Origins in 2018 in time for the 25th anniversary of Star Control 2.
9. We would also like to release an update to Star Control 1/2 under the existing agreement (50/50) split if we can get your permission for the 25th anniversary.
10. Would you be able to participate in any Star Control: 25th anniversary events next year? There are many people, such as myself, who would not have become game developers if it weren't for you two.


Brad additionally asked them to do an interview. To this Paul responded by politely declining and informing him that he had his own plans:

Hi Brad,
Fred and I appreciate the update! In regards to the interview, I think we are going to save our powder (and really limited time) for our own anniversary plans ‐‐ which we are not quite ready to talk about ‐‐ closer to November.

Thanks,
‐ Paul


You asked us to imagine what Brad would think, well, we may not have access to the inner workings of his mind, but he do have him expressing his support for P&F doing their own thing:

Hi Paul,
Sounds good. Please let me know how we might assist. We would love to help with any promotion or support we can give!
Cheers,
Brad


Despite Paul explicitly saying no to an interview, Brad followed that up by asking again and sending along a list of questions. He ended that email with this:

You mentioned you have some announcements of your own coming up. Please feel free to send anything you want me to promote through our channels. Heck, even if you were leaving Activision and making Ur‐Quan: The Revenge or something we'd be delighted to help spread the word.

Full emails and email exchange located here: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... 64.10.pdf
So Brad figured out, on his own, that F&P might be planning their own sequel, which he expressed support for before the public announcement and without any direct confirmation from F&P. Even if he was secretly dreading such an action, he signaled his approval for them to go ahead with that. I do not see how F&P should have any obligation to delay their plans or run them through a company who, in an effort to capitalize on their work and "goodwill," bought the trademark (Stardock had no deal with P&F and had to reasonably expect that their purchase came with risks like this), but even if you think that they do, they had Brad's explicit backing for both putting out their own announcement and for it being about a sequel while Stardock was ramping up its own promotion. Brad later attempted to spin this situation to make himself look like an aggrieved party to people who were not privy to these emails.

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