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Topic review - Sequels strife
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
vancho1 wrote:
Posting as guest because I can't be bothered to find my old account (if I even had one).

In my opinion, both sides are acting rather childishly. As Quasispatial said, the main dispute is over who has the rights to sell the old DOS star control games. Stardock says that the agreement with Accolade transferred over to Atari and then to Stardock, and that gives Stardock rights to sell the old games. Meanwhile, Fred and Paul say that the agreement ended and that Stardock only owns the trademark. In my mind, the solution is simple. Brad has already said that these old games don't make a lot of money in the first place, so Stardock should just offer to vacate its distribution rights on the old games in exchange for Fred and Paul signing an agreement that Ghosts of the Precursors has nothing to do with Stardock. That in my mind is a win-win situation, and avoids the whole mess.


That is quite literally something we would have accepted.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:59 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Posting as guest because I can't be bothered to find my old account (if I even had one).

In my opinion, both sides are acting rather childishly. As Quasispatial said, the main dispute is over who has the rights to sell the old DOS star control games. Stardock says that the agreement with Accolade transferred over to Atari and then to Stardock, and that gives Stardock rights to sell the old games. Meanwhile, Fred and Paul say that the agreement ended and that Stardock only owns the trademark. In my mind, the solution is simple. Brad has already said that these old games don't make a lot of money in the first place, so Stardock should just offer to vacate its distribution rights on the old games in exchange for Fred and Paul signing an agreement that Ghosts of the Precursors has nothing to do with Stardock. That in my mind is a win-win situation, and avoids the whole mess.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
If you ask me, I'd say this whole debate springs from the question of whether or not Atari still had the right to sell the Star Control games, back when they owned the IP. If they did, that means that they inherited it from Accolade, and under Stardock's terms of purchase, that would mean that Stardock, in turn, also has the right to sell those games. If Atari did not have the right to do so, on the other hand, then Stardock could by no means have it either. I believe that whereas Stardock thinks the former scenario is the correct one, Fred & Paul appears to believe in the latter. The entire conflict is by no means a product of either party doing something wrong, as much as it is the result of this misunderstanding.

Am I wrong?
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Frogboy wrote:
So just say the word and I'll go.
Please do not.
I like your input.
It also prevents me from guessing too much and too wild.
And I want to prevent to live in a filtered bubble.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:22 am
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Quote:
Look, if you guys don't want me here, I can leave.

This was right after a response to my post, so I must say I never made any indication that I wanted you to leave. I would never even consider doing that here. I'm only offering suggestions for how to handle talking about this dispute Stardock has with F&P. You can take them or leave them.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:23 am
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Brad,

First of all I will believe you have good intentions and don't want you to be kicked out.
Quote:
I'm not a lawyer so I am not going to make speculate on things like the Ur-Quan Masters other than to say Stardock is glad it exists and is supportive of that effort and will never take any action to interfere with it.

That said, it's easy to see how one could read this sort of statement as a subtle threat. If Ur-quan Masters is of questionable legality and exists by Stardock's good graces (which seems to logically follow if we grant all your other premises), that can be revoked at any time. Now I believe you when you say you support UQM and don't want to go after it, but I would still be worried reading that in F&P's place and would probably think "I need a lawyer."

F&P have been strongly convinced for a long time that they fully own Star Control 1/2 and have rights to all future products in the universe (including non-game), with the exception of the name "Star Control." This is something they've believed since sometime in the first half of the 00s and not a new thing they came up with to needle Stardock or start a fight. I'm sure they have consulted with lawyers about it in the past long before Stardock became associated with SC.

Could they be mistaken about this, could there be more ambiguities than they imagined? It's possible, though if they are wrong I doubt things are as definitive as Stardock's side either. But it makes sense that they would feel threatened about being told otherwise, however polite the language. I can understand why they feel backed into a corner, even if I can't assess all the legal arguments and their public blog posts are probably imprudent.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:39 am
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Frogboy has done nothing here anywhere NEAR worthy of a ban, so it's up to him whether he finds you all sufficiently annoying to leave. And before that point I'd hope I or other moderators would be stepping in to keep people from being very annoying.

We've had some red text going around on both sides today; hopefully no more will be needed.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:24 am
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
It i my hope that this community will never become one of exclusion. I would hope you would not leave Frogboy. Despite the obvious hostility, which I believe is only born from the passion we all hold for those involved, this community has never been one that I feel has not had the capacity to overcome disagreements.

Ultimately the choice to stay or go lies with you or the mods, but I for one would appreciate your continued input.
Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:57 am
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Ogo3142 wrote:
Quote:
I realize that sounds like PR speak

I actually think it sounds like a series of threats, or at the very least a FUD campaign. It's all vague and ominous. Like these statements:

Quote:
Some people here will clearly not like what they find.

Quote:
As this thread makes clear, the IP surrounding the classic series is a little messy.


Again, I'd suggest you stop beating around the bush so much and stick to the point. If Stardock's position is the The Ur-Quan Masters was illegally licensed in any part, say so. If Stardock's position is that The Ur-Quan Masters and related copyrights were successfully collected by FF&PR, and Stardock's only contention is that it has a permanent agreement allowing it to distribute the DOS games inherited from Accolade, say so. This isn't something like software patents where knowing makes things worse. If you just can't make concrete statements on behalf of Stardock for legal reasons, then again, just say so.

Quote:
but that's almost exactly the words I've used in my discussions.

If so, I would find their frustration to be quite understandable.


I don't think I can be any more clear.

Those agreements were transferred to Stardock by Atari who in turn received them from Accolade.

I'm not a lawyer so I am not going to make speculate on things like the Ur-Quan Masters other than to say Stardock is glad it exists andis supportive of that effort and will never take any action to interfere with it.

What I do know, however, based on legal counsel is that Paul's Accolade agreements are still in effect and enforceable which contain many provisions that are very restrictive. I also know that Stardock owns Star Control in all forms that related to computer and video games.

And lastly, I know that Stardock desires for Ghosts of the Precursors to be made and to be made as a continuation of the events of the Ur-Quan Masters.

As for the copyrights, like I said, you can look them up. I am not going to go into more detail than that for obvious legal reasons.

Look, if you guys don't want me here, I can leave. I am *trying* to be supportive of the community and if you look, I have not said a negative word about Paul and Fred. In fact, if you look at my postings, they have been universally positive about them. I am, of course, biased, but I am trying to provide as much information, as I can on the subject. Far more, I think most would agree, than would normally be provided given the circumstances.

So just say the word and I'll go.
Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: Sequels strife  Reply with quote
Quote:
I realize that sounds like PR speak

I actually think it sounds like a series of threats, or at the very least a FUD campaign. It's all vague and ominous. Like these statements:

Quote:
Some people here will clearly not like what they find.

Quote:
As this thread makes clear, the IP surrounding the classic series is a little messy.


Again, I'd suggest you stop beating around the bush so much and stick to the point. If Stardock's position is the The Ur-Quan Masters was illegally licensed in any part, say so. If Stardock's position is that The Ur-Quan Masters and related copyrights were successfully collected by FF&PR, and Stardock's only contention is that it has a permanent agreement allowing it to distribute the DOS games inherited from Accolade, say so. This isn't something like software patents where knowing makes things worse. If you just can't make concrete statements on behalf of Stardock for legal reasons, then again, just say so.

Quote:
but that's almost exactly the words I've used in my discussions.

If so, I would find their frustration to be quite understandable.
Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:35 pm

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